2343 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

Has this been mentioned before:

...the project will have positive economic impacts on the region, as yachts usually moor for three to four days before continuing up the coast. So far, the marina has caught the attention of sailing aficionados. In 2018, the annual Melges 24 Canadian Championship, one of the most prestigious regattas in the world, will take place at the marina. The regatta is expected to attract 60 to 80 entrants from around the world for the June 3 to 8 race and is expected to have a roughly $1-million impact on the local economy.

http://www.vicnews.c.../418369343.html

 

[VicHockeyFan]

Melges Worlds are coming to RVYC in 2018 too:

 

https://www.facebook...112021072502528

[Sparky]

[Ryan Roberts]

While N Parker and Marko Juras may adopt the attitude that "Frankly, I couldn't care less how the nearby residents feel about this project" on all projects in the community, most Victorians and Canadians disagree.  This is why public hearings usually occur on projects that need public approval and can adversely affect some citizens; be the effects  financial, individual  life quality, or community quality of life in nature.. 

 

In the case of the marina, as noted previously, it was known for at least two decades that a project could be developed; thus nearby residents should have had an expectation that something would happen. Nevertheless, I would argue, and the relevant governments involved accept, that an effort should be made to minimize or at least make a reasonable effort to adopt policies or rules which will minimize, or mitigate, or reasonably control aspects of a proposal which has the potential to  negatively impact the community and/or the quality of life of affected citizens. In the case of the marina, the original proposal was significantly down scaled and otherwise modified at considerable cost to developers. 

 

The bottom line is that the attitudes of Parker and Juras , which we may respect, are rejected by most Canadians and, I believe, participants  on-line here.

[VicHockeyFan]

In the case of the marina, the original proposal was significantly down scaled and otherwise modified at considerable cost to developers. 

 

 

And also at considerable cost to all us taxpayers that live nowhere near the project.

 

 

Third, I am not persuaded that it would be good public policy to have municipalities making development commitments, then not only have them turn around and attack those commitments as illegal and beyond their own powers, but allow them to scoop a financial windfall at the expense of those who contracted with them in good faith.  This is precisely the sort of unfairness that the doctrine of unjust enrichment is intended to address.

 

 

I would therefore allow the appeal, set aside the decision of the British Columbia Court of Appeal, and restore the trial judgment requiring the respondent City  to pay the appellant $1.08 million.  Interest will accrue on that amount at registrar’s rates from time to time commencing the 1st day of October 1993 to the date of this judgment.  The appellant is entitled to its costs of the trial before Wilson J. and of the appeal from that judgment to the British Columbia Court of Appeal, and the costs of the present appeal in this Court.

 

 

https://scc-csc.lexu...m/2191/index.do

[Ryan Roberts]

Yes, please focus on the principle--I totally agree that in practice everything can and does often get screwed up and stupidly, in my less than humble opinion,and absurdly out of hand.  regards, rr   restating: For a given outcome, we want to minimize the private and/or social cost.  ugh!

[VicHockeyFan]

has the potential to  negatively impact the community and/or the quality of life of affected citizens. 

 

I'd argue that the expansion of the seaplane terminal will cause more angst for affected citizens, resulting in more flights.  But that was given the unanimous green-light by council.

[Nparker]

...The bottom line is that the attitudes of Parker and Juras , which we may respect, are rejected by most Canadians and, I believe, participants  on-line here.

Regarding other participants online here at VV, I seem to get a good deal of support in much of what I post; 4736 likes as of last count.

And as I have stated before, the residents of the Songhees do not now, nor have have they ever had exclusive rights to the waterfront. It belongs as much to me as it does to those who live adjacent to it and I should have as much say in how it is developed as any other CoV taxpayer. 

 

Edited by Nparker, 09 April 2017 - 02:42 PM.

[Cassidy]

It is somewhat indicative of human nature to presume that once you've purchased something (a Songhees condo for example), it and everything around it either belong to you, or must receive your blessing.

 

This kind of thinking is terribly at odds with what is (in reality) a fully working Inner Harbour, one that's not owned or influenced by those who happen to have purchased condo's on the Songhees (or elsewhere on the harbour).

 

As has been noted many times before, a working harbour is a living harbour - and the Inner harbour has always been a working harbour. 

 

The International Marina, in addition to being a fully approved and vetted project, is yet one more "business" that will make excellent use of the Inner Harbour, bringing with it people, activity, money, and security ... and will further down the road be viewed as just another fixture in our amazing and working harbour.

 

Personally, if I were a resident in one of the condo's surrounding the Inner Harbour, and if such things as "major change" or "noise" bothered me ... I'd pay very close attention to what was around me, and what might be around me in the future. 

For example, personally I'd rather live in any of the condo's around the International Marina than I would be living in a condo just a bit further up the harbour where I might awake first thing in the morning to the sound of a plasma cutter in the shipyard ... but then the shipyard precedes ALL the condo's in the harbour - so it's completely fair to presume those who are purchasing a home within ear-shot of a plasma cutter know what they're getting into.

 

So fair warning now to those who may down the road purchase something as yet unbuilt at Dockyard Green ... you WILL be awakened on repeated occasions by the horrific screech of a plasma cutter - so when that happens, please don't complain, or begin a campaign to try to get the shipyard shut down!

 

We need more light and medium industry and more business in the Inner and Upper harbour ... not less, and certainly not the haunting silence and eventual (painful) death to the Inner Harbour that a ring of NIMBY condo's would result in.

Edited by Cassidy, 10 April 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[Cassidy]

I can't help but wonder what some of our "newcomers" to town, be they retirees or young professionals (generally - folks with enough coin to buy a condo somewhere on the harbour) would think about the grand old days of the Inner Harbour when the tenants were the likes of Bapco Paint (who used to dump paint and god knows what else through a hole in the floor directly into the harbour), or the B.C. Forest Products plywood plant, or the noise and dirty nastiness that was the V.M.D.

 

The "new" Inner, Outer, and Upper harbour are an oasis of relative calm compared to the grand old days of "heavy industry" on the waterways of Victoria!

 

Folks should be jumping up and down with joy at things like the International Marina, which is clean, quiet and darn nice looking compared to harbour shoreline of days passed (not that I ever had a problem with the old shoreline, but generally speaking, things are more sustainable, and certainly cleaner today).

[Hotel Mike]

^ Not to mention the Lime Bay Shake Mill near where Spinnakers now is. Also the Marina dredged out a lot of crap that shouldn't be in a harbour, and that is left over from the heavy industry. You are right Cassidy...they don't know how lucky they are. If any of the owners right there are panicking and selling, those would be great units for an investor to pick up. Property values along there are about to go up.

[Rob Broadbent]

 The Songhees is such a dismal failure when it comes to vibrancy that an organ grinder with a monkey would add value to this area.

 

LOL.  Good point.  Never understood the weird use Parisian style there.  I'm hoping the marina can distract from that a bit.   And the use of Queen Ann style a couple of blocks away is truly revolting and in-appropriate.

Edited by Rob Broadbent, 11 April 2017 - 10:52 AM.

[Cassidy]

There's more than a couple of those Songhees condo builds that are definitely NOT going to age gracefully from an architectural standpoint.

 

I mean the condo building right at the new marina wouldn't look terribly out of place behind a warehouse in old Vic West (no offense intended towards Vic West).

 

If anything, that condo building right at the International Marinas front door will definitely drag down the desirability and panache of the new Marina ... not the other way around 

[AllseeingEye]

Everyone and his dog on VV particularly knows precisely why the original "1980's" Songhees assumed the form it did and above all why it was eventually approved: it met the only criterion (especially) from that time that mattered and which any and all development was gauged against, and especially one on Victoria's precious waterfront...i.e. it wasn't tall. The thinking was essentially "Butt ******g ugly? Sure, maybe....I guess....but hey at least its only five stories! Good to go!!!!"

 

An architect friend from Britain visiting several years ago, and gazing across the harbour, referred to it as "that most unfortunate abomination" and concluded that IHO the early Songhees looked like "a spastic Disneyland cardboard cut-out gone sideways and on acid".....

[Mike K.]

Yup. Brutal.

Next up is the TrendWest abomination which passed with flying colours and was, believe it or not, Pam Madoff's late partner's project. He didn't design the whole thing, but he was involved with it.

[Dr. Barillas]

I'm not sure why everyone sees the Songhees as such an ugly area.

 

We could have had it lined with View towers style buildings mixed with some Tyee co-op.

 

That would have been a lot worse.

Edited by Dr. Barillas, 12 April 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Cassidy]

I don't think there ever would have been any "View Towers" type buildings there.

The City of Victoria (at that time) seemed dead set against height on most new developments in Victoria, especially on the Songhees lands.

 

The "tall" buildings in the surrounding area today were (if memory serves) built well after the original dodgy bunch that sit right on the water.

[Gary H]

The high winds test...

 

 

 

[Bingo]

The REAL test will be when they have all the high windage mega yachts tied up putting more strain on the floats.

[Nparker]

The high winds test...

 

Fortunately winds as strong as we had tonight aren't terribly common, especially this time of year.