3308 replies to this topic

[jaylow]

has anyone read the monthly newsletters?
reading over them breifly, it kind of sounded like they are trying to live in a bubble.
And Bob Evans.....didn't he do something controversial in the songhees a long time ago, which now defines the songhees?

[aastra]

Criminy. Read this re: their opposition to the marina:

In essence, the right to own water lots is open to debate, but the right of every citizen to the ancient Anglo-Saxon law of “quiet enjoyment” is not—and that we will defend.

Choke. Gag. Cough.

Wow.

If you want "quiet enjoyment" then why on earth did you buy a condo right on the harbour in downtown Victoria??

[VicHockeyFan]

Criminy. Read this re: their opposition to the marina:

In essence, the right to own water lots is open to debate, but the right of every citizen to the ancient Anglo-Saxon law of “quiet enjoyment” is not—and that we will defend.

Choke. Gag. Cough.

Wow.

If you want "quiet enjoyment" then why on earth did you buy a condo right on the harbour in downtown Victoria??

People are ****ed.

[jaylow]

rich people are ****ed

[Holden West]

You will find ******y crossing all social, political and economic boundaries.

[Mike K.]

Ogden Point proposals ruled out
Role as port trumps ideas for tourists
BY CAROLYN HEIMAN Times Colonist staff

Ogden Point isn’t going to change despite dreamers who saw potential in it becoming a cousin to Vancouver’s Canada Place, or the site of a tourist attraction.
The Greater Victoria Harbour Victoria Authority announced yesterday it intends to keep the 30-acre site as it is, on the grounds that the greatest economic opportunity is what is does now: serving the marine and cruise ship industries.
The authority, which has been overseeing Ogden Point, Fisherman’s Wharf, Ship Point, the Wharf Street Marina and the Inner Harbour since 2002, consulted with community and industry leaders on the site.
According to authority general manager Paul Stervos, ideas for everything from hotels to cultural interpretation centres came out of the session, but “they fundamentally forgot what is essential to be a port.”
A $24,000 study done this year concluded that authority needed all the land at Ogden Point to continue as a port, leaving little room for development.
GVHA board chairman Stewart Johnston said the decision represents a change of thinking on the part of the authority that several years back “got really excited about the (development) potential,” which they now realize would “spoil big opportunities that realistically can come here.”
For example, he said that if a moratorium on offshore drilling is removed, the port could become a vital link to servicing offshore drilling equipment.
But Victoria Mayor Alan Lowe said he was disappointed in the decision, saying “there is so much potential for that site. Someday, when there is more money, I hope they’ll be able to create a vision that is more welcoming for the cruise ship industry.”I think Mayor Lowe forgot his council created a 10 meter height limit for the site just a while back. That effectively negates any reason to redevelop the site especially with the sorts of anti-development individuals running James Bay (more on that at the very end).
The recent study identified three uses for Ogden Point:

• A “cargo transshipment centre.” This would see ships offload containers for shipment by rail or truck to shorten their continent-to-continent turnaround time. It remains a possibility for the future.
• A cruise ship port. Although the number of ships visiting Victoria hit 186 this year, an all-time high, the report advised against focusing exclusively on such business, which can shift quickly. In 2007, 160 ships are expected, Servos said.

• Marine service. Servos said this has already started to happen. For example, cruise ships are provisioned at the port and the warehouse is used to store fibre optic cables.
Servos said there is room for light industrial marine-targeted proposals along the fringes of Dallas Road.
But the parking lot will remain. “We need the room,” said Servos. Besides, he said, the soil underneath is contaminated and it has to remain capped.
Tim Van Alstine, spokesman for the James Bay Neighbourhood Environment Association, said the authority is making a wise decision.
“They could turn it into a circus ground with some residential. But once you destroy your port, it’s gone.” That's right, Tim, a beautiful port that welcomes visitors, not scares them, surrounded by residential and civic uses will turn into a circus ground. This, folks, is the perfect example of the types of individuals who run our city and do their best to keep it muted.

[Galvanized]

It is disapointing for sure but I'm OK with this for now. I think the Harbour Authority has watered themselves down with regards to Odgen Point, Bellevile Terminal, Fishermans Wharf and Ships Point. All need attention but I think they need to focus on one thing at a time in order to get something accomplished. Their first focus should be the Bellevile Terminal and then prioritize the others from there.

[aastra]

I think Tim makes a good point. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to see those gigantic grain silos back on site, or endless stacks of lumber with trucks coming and going all day...

A $24,000 study done this year concluded that authority needed all the land at Ogden Point to continue as a port...

Yep, they need that huge empty parking lot. They just do.

A “cargo transshipment centre.” This would see ships offload containers for shipment by rail or truck to shorten their continent-to-continent turnaround time. It remains a possibility for the future.

Does anybody actually believe for a second that Tim and company would allow something like this??

For example, he said that if a moratorium on offshore drilling is removed, the port could become a vital link to servicing offshore drilling equipment.

Yep. And if scientists ever find a way to turn pavement into gold, the port could become a vital source of pavement.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

[HOMBRE]

correct me if i'm wrong but i would hardly consider that a port, after all it really does is cruise ships and yes it docks some larger ships.

however there is no longshoreman there and no reason why alot of these ships couldn't relocate.

Tim, honestly is just a fool

[Mike K.]

Op-ed from the TC:

Ogden Point is our sea link
But port could co-exist with other facilities in our window on the shipping world

Ogden Point is not glaringly attractive, but it makes a considerable contribution to Victoria’s economy.
Right now, it’s basically a place where big ships tie up, and there is a vast parking lot for those who want to see the cruise ships or board the helijet. Looking after boats requires a lot of clutter. Cables are all over the place, and there’s a warehouse full of fibreoptic ones.
When construction on the first piers was started in 1913, the idea was that the construction of the Panama Canal would produce a boom in shipping for Victoria. It didn’t, and for years the place was little more than a lumber yard for visiting ships.
“Four foreign ships load at Ogden Point,” proclaimed a Colonist headline in the mid-1950s, because by then, other stuff was being exported besides wood. But it wasn’t until the cruise ships started coming that the Point was made.
Though James Bay residents might grumble about the traffic, the cruise ships have served us, as we’ve served them, well. And even if the cruise traffic is diverted in future, the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority has decided that Ogden Point must remain, essentially, a port.
The authority says there’s room for a little marine-oriented light industry along the Dallas Road fringes, but turning it into a tourist zone with residential development is out of the question.
As part of the agreement in 2002 under which the GVHA took over Ogden Point from Transport Canada, the authority qualifies for $2.8 million from the federal government for repair and upkeep of the piers. Some underwater sections need repair right now, and the federal money is going to be needed to help pay for repairs in the future.
The Harbour Authority is unconvinced there is room for anything much more than what already exists at the Point. It warns that the cruise-ship business is shifty and the big ships might not come forever. Besides, the authority says, the ground underneath the parking lot is so contaminated that it has to remain capped.
That might be. But there are always reasons not to change what is. It takes visionaries to dream what might be.
Victoria is a maritime city — and an intensely cultural one. Cruise ships and other industries come and go, but culture and heritage stay. Right now, there is little sign of that part of our patrimony on the waterfront that is so central to who we are.
At one time, Sydney’s famous Opera House was just a dream. In the three decades since its completion, it has become synonymous with that city and is giving the kangaroo a run for its money as a national symbol for Australia — a symbol that emphasizes culture, not critters.
Maybe the Harbour Authority is correct and Ogden Point is not the right place. But time is running out for Victoria to make a place for culture on the edge of the sea that defines us as a city.

[aastra]

Great piece. Who was the author?

[Mike K.]

No name was attached to the piece.

[Scaper]

UNREAL!!!!

I am sure someone will copy this article onto this page......I am so pissed.

Also there is some good letters to the editor regarding Ogden Point too...If some one can post those.


I really think we should take this as our mission right now.

We need something to light the fire in all of us. I say lets give the Harbour authority a piece of our minds.

[Holden West]

Ogden Point expansion not in cards

Oct 11 2006 Victoria News

A recent report produced for the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority has ruled out any large scale future development at Ogden Point's port facilities.

Completed this summer and released late last month, the report concluded that most of the 30-acre property is needed for continued port operations, leaving little room for development.

According to a recent GVHA press release, the board members quickly determined that Ogden Point should remain as a mixed-use facility and continue to support cruise ship traffic and "conventional port operations."

As a result, the GVHA will not entertain any development projects on the site, except for "marine-related commercial ventures along Dallas Road."

The decision ends any speculation that Ogden Point is slated for high density residential development or a return to heavy industry of years gone by.

----------------
Are they nuts?!

Look at this:

[G-Man]

The south east potion of the lot, next to the main entrance seems like an ideal large space that could easily house a very large convention centre. Or of course they could keep the current level of parking and merely build above it. Then again they do have that wonderful 10 metre height limit that the city put in with zero discussion with the citizens of the city.

[gumgum]

There has got to be a specific reason for this. That site is ****ing huge. A huge barren wasteland that I've never seen used to even %30 of its capacity - and when I did see that, it was because it was populated by a bunch of greyhound buses.
Either something's going on or we've just witnessed another moronic decision in this city.

[Holden West]

Politics. It's all politics. People clearly aren't thinking rationally over there.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I wonder whether the "Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor initiative" has any ...uhm, subtextual?, influence here? See [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061011.wports1010/BNStory/National/home:41a04]this Globe & Mail story[/url:41a04], for example...

The CBC reports Harper's announcement as a boon primarily to Prince Rupert & Vancouver, but the G&M article suggests that effects are expected to be spread around a bit more than just to those two places. Consider that the Liberals had the same thing in mind when they were still in power, and it's obvious that it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Harper's gov't will come up with a similar initiative. (Aside from so-called left and so-called right politics, it just makes sense anyway...)

The initiative is getting reported by news outlets as far away as [url=http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4252559.html:41a04]Houston Texas[/url:41a04] and China's [url=http://english.people.com.cn/200610/12/eng20061012_311038.html:41a04]People's Daily[/url:41a04]. Consistently the emphasis is on Vancouver & Prince Rupert, but perhaps there's beneficial fall-out for Victoria, or...?

Alas, I have never misbehaved with any of the gentlemen who run our Harbour Authority (oooh, oooh!), so have no privy insights here. But: maybe there's some thinking going on in terms of "Ogden Point=Port, Feds=$expenditure, let's keep that back door open and ready..." ?Hmm, what do you think?

[Holden West]

Good point. Float a serious redevelopment proposal for that property and this Federal cash shuts up faster than a Tofino faucet.

[G-Man]

That is a possibility and it works with the idea expressed in one of the articles above for a container load / unload facility. I beleive that that is where you kind of store the containers and then transfer them to different ships. So say a ship is heading to Los Angeles but they could drop 40 containers in Vic for pickup and transfer to Van but not have to go all the way there. Whether we have the capability for ships like that is another question.