69 replies to this topic

[Maverick]

um, and I would vigorously disagree with you on that, and vigorously agree with Zimquats...

When I worked non-union, I climbed, I ran, I blew past a lot of guys that were hired long before I was, I climbed a rate of $10 an hour over the course of a year (while the other guys if they were lucky got a buck or two...), simply because I was a hard worker, was always at work, and if I ****ed up, I accepted responsibilities for my actions and decisions and took the punishment or flak for it. I then made the mistake of moving to a union company, simple because that was the only real choice at the time, in my union time, getting a pay raise was like pulling teeth, my job security was shot out the window because I was the low man on the totem pole in terms of seniority, whether I could do the job better, was more reliable, or tried that much harder didn't really matter...The union rewards slackers, lazy individuals, and those who simply like to coast along while holding back the hard workers, the ones that want to get the job done and are willing to do what it takes. (This isn't always the case, there are the few, but it is the norm...sorry, face facts folks it is...)

You're argument that it sucks in a union at the bottom versus the top is complete hogwash, I've seen more incompentance in a union in the upper echelons, than I've ever seen in a non-union company, with no accountablility for the people at the top or bottom...unions have become to big and two powerful and have lost their original intent.

Here Here!!
Having worked in a union environment in the forest industry for 23 years,I can hear exactly what you are saying.
From personal experience now!
I had to train another worker that was #2 on the company seniority list to do my job,as a job posting went up for the same job that I was doing I could not say no as it was against the training program that the union had with the company.I was near the bottom of the so called totem pole.This guy I was training was a pain in the ass to the company,hid behind the union,and was a slacker that did very little to justify his existence on this wonderful planet .As weeks went on I had him trained, more equipment was purchased and he was on his own.
After a shutdown over the winter I was layed off and who got my job,the slacker that did nothing to justify his lousy existence.The UNION member with all the mighty seniority came out ahead.This is just one example that has come across my path in my journey on our planet.I am sure there are more.
The only good thing I came away with is a decent pension,and knowing that if I had to choose I would choose a non union company to work for.

[Zimquats]

I got conned into applying for a senior government position once. Had worked with the government people who were pushing me to apply while privately managing some federal projects for them. Needless to say, I aced the competancy interview, as I was supplied a list of the questions that would be asked ahead of time. Also needless to say, I turned down the subsequent offer. This leads me to believe the entire 'promotions based on merit' arguement is a bit of a joke in reality.

[G-Man]

^ If you did well on the interview and were selected, why doed that mean the merit argument is bunk?

[Zimquats]

Because they gave me the questions they were going to ask me in the interview, before the interview...

[G-Man]

^ That is standard practice for all interviewees you were not special.

[Holden West]

^That's not what his mirror tells him.

[spanky123]

^ That is standard practice for all interviewees you were not special.

The difference is when you also get the answers in advance!

[PulpVictor]

I am a firm believer that we have FAR too much government in Canada. Government does not create anything, produce anything, sell anything, or otherwise contribute to our economy. I get so tired of the unions setting wages for public servants that our taxes and hard work have to pay. These people never have to take any risk, and can rely on us to give them a cushy retirement. I have no retirement left. I have no income guarantee. I pay through the nose for what? The medical system? The Mounties? The Prince and Queen's visitations? No thanks.

The reason there is poverty in Canada, a small, wealthy country, is that there is too much government. And, non-transparent government.

[rjag]

My wife is a teacher with 18 years in the 'system'. I have seen her spend long hours in her classroom, 7a.m. to 6p.m. many many times. Her normal day is usually 7:30 to 5. I'm very proud of what she has accomplished, she is now in demand as a teacher's teacher and travels the Province training on her days off (she now works 3 days per week for various reasons.).

Even though she busts her butt to make sure little Johnny gets all the help he needs to make it to the next grade, there is no acknowledgement of this within the District. If a position comes up within a better school or better hours, her accomplishments are not recognised. All that is recognised is seniority and expertise within the grade level, even then expertise is secondary. What does this tell me? It indicates that it doesnt matter whether you put in the hours, invest in yourself etc if some slacker has more years, they get the job. The Union is useless, its there to pay off their friends, go on stupid junkets and spend the dues in political advertising.

If we had a true merit based system, 1/3 of the teachers out there would be fired for incompetence and laziness.

[PulpVictor]

I have two children, one who is going to graduate high school this year, and another 23, who also graduated from this public system. I applaud your partner, as dedicated, hard working public servants are few. I can't begin to tell you how awful most of them are, how little they care, and how much they expect for doing nothing.

My favourite unionized public sector worker story: A friend of mine's spouse works in the public sector. She was complaining about how slow her computer was, and so they got her a new one. My friend asked her why she needed a faster system, and she replied; "to play my games".

Waste. I abhor it.

[Mike K.]

Maybe by "games" she meant her actual work?

I worked for several government agencies during co-op stints as part of my undergrad and found managerial staff to be hard working, competent and dedicated individuals. Their staff, i.e. my co-workers, were a different story but there were some individuals among them who stood out for their professionalism and leadership abilities and would be moving up (or out) over time.

[G-Man]

I have two children, one who is going to graduate high school this year, and another 23, who also graduated from this public system. I applaud your partner, as dedicated, hard working public servants are few. I can't begin to tell you how awful most of them are, how little they care, and how much they expect for doing nothing.

My favourite unionized public sector worker story: A friend of mine's spouse works in the public sector. She was complaining about how slow her computer was, and so they got her a new one. My friend asked her why she needed a faster system, and she replied; "to play my games".

Waste. I abhor it.

That story is simply not true. If people had any ideas of the hoops the manager of that employee would have to go through to get the computer you would know that it is ridiculous.

[jklymak]

^ I agree - at least on the federal level, the amount of BS government scientists have to go through to get a new computer is staggering. And they have a genuine need for fast computers.

[Bob Fugger]

^ I agree - at least on the federal level, the amount of BS government scientists have to go through to get a new computer is staggering. And they have a genuine need for fast computers.

Ditto for Crowns. We're still using IE Explorer 5! It's getting hard to do my, errm, research, when sites are starting to phase out support.

[yodsaker]

Back in the day I worked for a big Ontario ministry that had 11,000 workers province-wide. There were 11 reporting levels from mailroom to DM. At the time IBM had 7 reporting levels for 375,000 people worldwide.
OK, the tall foreheads decided to downsize. My dept had about 60 people (media relations) and the top 2-3 made about 95K a year. Basically they went to meetings, spouted slogans at the rest of us and between May-Sept. could not be found after 11:30am on Fridays.
A committee was formed to make the chop list. These guys were on it, natch.
Who got the axe? Contract people and a lot of hard-working women who did all the grunt work until 5pm Fridays. They gutted out the people who made it go and the 2-3 passengers at the top continued to go to meetings, be unavailable, exhort everyone to work hard and keep their golf clubs in the trunk.
Foxes in charge of the chicken coop.
Way too many middle managers riding free with too much time to make too few decisions.

[PulpVictor]

That story is simply not true. If people had any ideas of the hoops the manager of that employee would have to go through to get the computer you would know that it is ridiculous.

Well, granted, it was back when the NDP controlled this chaos, but, the story is true.

[LJ]

Well, granted, it was back when the NDP controlled this chaos, but, the story is true.

They had computers back then?

[VicHockeyFan]

ONTARIO: There are over 88,000 public servants who made over $100,000 in 2012. Compared to the previous year, this is increase of over 8000 people (11%).

As in the previous year, the highest paid person in 2012 was Ontario Power Generation CEO Tom Mitchell.

The honour to employ the largest number of workers from the list goes to Ontario Power Generation with over 8000 salaries over $100,000.

http://www.landoffre...?p=114#more-114

According to Wiki, Ontario Power only had 11,000 employees in 2007.

http://en.wikipedia....ower_Generation

[sebberry]

That's getting on a billion a year in salaries.

I suppose when you have a captive audience, you can pay your actors whatever you want.

[Rob Randall]

If you wish you could have a new job that sucks way more than your present job there is an opportunity for you:

 

Citizen Services Officer

Reference number: CSD17J-018788-000139
Selection process number: 2017-CSD-EA-BC-17510

Permanent and temporary positions; Employment status: full-time, part-time 
$51,538 to $57,643

 

 

The work involves prolonged exposure to the public in an open environment with minimal privacy. There is constant exposure to noise from office equipment, the clients, and co-workers.

Repetition and redundancy of tasks may cause strain injuries. Exposure to disease and possibly infectious germs, odour, perfumes, etc. could result in health conditions. Exposure to boxes, bags of mail, carts, noise from a variety of equipment, messengers coming in and out to pick up or deliver packages.

Psychological:
The ability to deal with stressful situations is essential for the incumbent.

Exposure to unpredictable and uncontrollable volumes of mail, or a room full of applicants who can become volatile, may result in multiple demands for resources and pressure within tight service standards.

Exposure on a daily basis to a number of complex and/or urgent cases requires a shift in priorities. The work requires that the cases are dealt with in an environment that lacks privacy both for clients and employees.

There are frequent interruptions from colleagues, callers, applicants, and visitors. There is a continuous requirement to deal with imposed service standards, report deadlines and to satisfy multiple concurrent demands made by management resulting in continuous intellectual and psychological effort. Very little privacy is available.

I like that tons of mail is lumped together with "volatile applicants" as if it's a tossup as to which is worse.

Edited by Rob Randall, 16 October 2017 - 12:14 PM.