2177 replies to this topic

[VIResident]

I live downhill from the hotel and golf course and honestly, it's not that huge of a deal. If you live adjacent to the course and are a member you're probably gonna get free access to the walking trails anyways, and the bike trails already needed a fee. The sidewalks and bike lanes are still fully open and people can walk around the actual community without issue.

 

Over here you can be at any one of at least 7 or 8 excellent Provincial and CRD parks in 5-10 minutes, if I want to go for a nature walk doing it where I'm having to dodge retirees in golf carts seems pretty silly.

 

I do agree that we are moving towards more gated communities, however and I honestly think it's unnecessary and ridiculous, particularly on Bear Mountain. What kind of 'rabble' are you worried about willing to trot up Bear Mountain Parkway?! In my opinion, it's just exclusivity marketing to help justify the price of the fanciest cul-de-sacs at the top.

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- I have no skin in this game - "rabble' you are worried about"

and you are likely right, they are 'marketing' to their target market, for example anyone in the vicinity of

Beacon Hill Park. 

[Barrrister]

Marketing to anyone in City of Victoria period. 

[Mike K.]

In the 2000s there were theories floating around calling places like Bear Mountain and similar projects across North America future slums, primarily because peak oil would make driving so expensive that only slums could exist within these resort/suburban areas due to cost of transport. All the wealthy people, in other words, would be down at the bottom of urban areas leaving inaccessible hillsides for the poor.

[Barrrister]

Expert opinions have a way of proving wrong.

[Danma]

I live downhill from the hotel and golf course and honestly, it's not that huge of a deal. If you live adjacent to the course and are a member you're probably gonna get free access to the walking trails anyways, and the bike trails already needed a fee. The sidewalks and bike lanes are still fully open and people can walk around the actual community without issue.

 

Having thought about it, I think that this is really a bad move for Bear Mountain. There's little to no upside and the loss of goodwill is gonna bite them in the ass, because Bear Mountain is already viewed as being elitist and this really entrenches that view.

[davidN]

The only way that Bear Mountain can maitain itself is selling an "elite" image. It has been that way from the beginning.

 

The cost to develop/service the land and the costs to maintain the golf course and other amenities are reliant upon top dollar for thier properties. The more "elite" that it seems then the more valualbe the property. I would wager that they could care less if they are seen as elitiest.

 

The other factor they will rely upon is density. Make no mistake about it - Bear Mountain is about to become overwhelmed with condos and rental units. If you think it is dense now just wait!

Edited by davidN, 09 June 2021 - 11:42 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Having thought about it, I think that this is really a bad move for Bear Mountain. There's little to no upside and the loss of goodwill is gonna bite them in the ass, because Bear Mountain is already viewed as being elitist and this really entrenches that view.

 

the upside is less people on the trails.  people mostly like that.

 

how will the loss of goodwill affect the current homeowners?  

[Victoria Watcher]

In its newsletter this week, the company noted the trail network, like its golf and tennis offerings are amenities on private property. Daniel Cammiade, executive director of the Nature Trails Society, said it’s disappointing any time you see trails go from public to private.

 

“That’s not progress in my mind, it’s certainly disappointing,” he said, noting there may be an outcry as pulling Bear Mountain’s network from public use would mean severing a network that links with other trails on Skirt Mountain and beyond, as well as the popular trails on the backside of Mount Finlayson.

“A lot of connections could be cut off,” he said, noting a lot of hikers who don’t want to return down the steep front face of Mount Finlayson will use parts of Bear Mountain’s Canada Cup Trail to descend.

Cammiade said he understands there are costs and liability issues, but still hopes Ecoasis will reconsider the decision.

 

https://www.timescol...ails-1.24328476

[Mike K.]

And there we have it.

 

I'm certain the residents in these areas are growing tired of misuse of trails and green spaces that they as a community pay to maintain and clear of debris.

 

I was out in the Nitinaht Lake area this past weekend and in my 20 years of frequenting that part of Vancouver Island wilderness I have never seen so much garbage, damage and disorder as I have seen on this one trip. If people cannot be trusted to be the custodians of our green spaces then fences, rules and restriction will rise.

 

Fairy Creek has already lead to the closure of a major logging road to vehicles traversing from Port Renfrew to Cowichan Lake via Gordon Main. This might not mean much to people not familiar with that area or who don't recreate out that way, but to those that do, the closure is like shutting down West Saanich Road to traffic, and all feeder roads, meaning you can no longer access an entire swath of land.

[Danma]

the upside is less people on the trails.  people mostly like that.

 

how will the loss of goodwill affect the current homeowners?  

 

I think it affects the hotel (and restaurants and services there) as opposed to the homeowners. Ultimately at election time, perhaps we'll see a more engaged voter base here in Langford which is not good news for the current slate of city counsellors; if change happens at the poll, that could mean having to deal with a city much less accepting of Bear Mountain's shenanigans.

Edited by Danma, 09 June 2021 - 12:34 PM.

[Danma]

I'm certain the residents in these areas are growing tired of misuse of trails and green spaces that they as a community pay to maintain and clear of debris.

 

I was out in the Nitinaht Lake area this past weekend and in my 20 years of frequenting that part of Vancouver Island wilderness I have never seen so much garbage, damage and disorder as I have seen on this one trip. If people cannot be trusted to be the custodians of our green spaces then fences, rules and restriction will rise.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare trails being mostly used for their intended purposes on Bear Mountain to the kind of BS that happens with bush parties and stuff in the back country. Ecoasis admitted the issue from their end is one of liability, not one of misuse of the land. Sounds like the worst problem is people walking into the golf course, intentionally or otherwise – don't want some wayward sunday walker getting clocked with a golf ball.

I don't begrudge Bear Mountain from wanting to protect themselves, but all I'm saying is that shooing away locals is never a great move if you can avoid it.

[Mike K.]

I think it affects the hotel (and restaurants and services there) as opposed to the homeowners. Ultimately at election time, perhaps we'll see a more engaged voter base here in Langford which is not good news for the current slate of city counsellors; if change happens at the poll, that could mean having to deal with a city much less accepting of Bear Mountain's shenanigans.

 

What do you mean by shenanigans? What's happening with BM that is causing friction with the broader Langford community?

[Victoria Watcher]

if the hiking pass is $95/year isn't that something most can afford?

[Danma]

What do you mean by shenanigans? What's happening with BM that is causing friction with the broader Langford community?

 

The general perception in Langford is that Bear Mountain and all the community development there tends to get rubber stamped by city hall because they're all buddy-buddy and are like-minded in their aggressive approach to development. I didn't intend to imply anything underhanded was going on.

 

As far as that's concerned. Most people I've spoken to – including lots of people on Bear Mountain – are pretty cheesed with how the south side of Bear Mountain seems to have been able to clear cut that entire side (which wasn't the case with the original development areas which kept quite a bit of foliage along bear mountain parkway including walking trails and parkland.)

 

With a different council, I think there would be more thought put into those kinds of considerations and perhaps a more critical eye as a whole towards the development.

Edited by Danma, 09 June 2021 - 01:22 PM.

[Danma]

if the hiking pass is $95/year isn't that something most can afford?

 

I already pay CRD fees on my property taxes, who would pay $95 to hike when there's actual hiking trails not adjacent to a golf course minutes away...

[Victoria Watcher]

I already pay CRD fees on my property taxes, who would pay $95 to hike when there's actual hiking trails not adjacent to a golf course minutes away...

 

well the guy from the trails society aid now some trials might be "cut off" but only if people refuse to pay.

 

i don't know.   i've never really been to bear mountain except for the golf course.  i have no idea what the trails are all about.

[Mike K.]

The general perception in Langford is that Bear Mountain and all the community development there tends to get rubber stamped by city hall because they're all buddy-buddy and are like-minded in their aggressive approach to development. I didn't intend to imply anything underhanded was going on.

 

As far as that's concerned. Most people I've spoken to – including lots of people on Bear Mountain – are pretty cheesed with how the south side of Bear Mountain seems to have been able to clear cut that entire side (which wasn't the case with the original development areas which kept quite a bit of foliage along bear mountain parkway including walking trails and parkland.)

 

With a different council, I think there would be more thought put into those kinds of considerations and perhaps a more critical eye as a whole towards the development.

 

Those are separate projects not affiliated with Ecoasis/Bear Mountain. I think lots of people assume Bear Mountain includes everything along Bear Mountain Parkway, but that's not the case.

 

I also think we need to step back and look at what Langford has provided in terms of housing, relative to its municipal counterparts. Langford singlehandedly has kept this region from a housing disaster, and that's keeping in mind housing is a major issue in our region despite Langford's efforts because most other municipalities spend years planning around what some would refer to as an aggressive approach. Langford did what it did to house people, and it continues to do so faster than any other municipality on the south Island. If the electorate wants to change, it should be ready for the societal repercussions.

[Victoria Watcher]

I also think we need to step back and look at what Langford has provided in terms of housing, relative to its municipal counterparts. Langford singlehandedly has kept this region from a housing disaster, and that's keeping in mind housing is a major issue in our region despite Langford's efforts because most other municipalities spend years planning around what some would refer to as an aggressive approach. Langford did what it did to house people, and it continues to do so faster than any other municipality on the south Island. If the electorate wants to change, it should be ready for the societal repercussions.

 

I also think we need to step back and look at what Marie Antoinette has given to the people.  It might have been lots of bread in the past, maybe some cake, whatever.  The key thing is she's helped lots.  She can tend her castle as she pleases.

 

If you can't handle the cake, get out of the kitchen.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 June 2021 - 01:57 PM.

[Danma]

Those are separate projects not affiliated with Ecoasis/Bear Mountain. I think lots of people assume Bear Mountain includes everything along Bear Mountain Parkway, but that's not the case.

 

I also think we need to step back and look at what Langford has provided in terms of housing, relative to its municipal counterparts. Langford singlehandedly has kept this region from a housing disaster, and that's keeping in mind housing is a major issue in our region despite Langford's efforts because most other municipalities spend years planning around what some would refer to as an aggressive approach. Langford did what it did to house people, and it continues to do so faster than any other municipality on the south Island. If the electorate wants to change, it should be ready for the societal repercussions.

Oh, no question, and I shouldn't conflate the resort with the community as a whole.

 

I do appreciate the need for housing in the region, for sure... but the developers aren't in it for altruistic purposes and the city should be holding those developers to (IMHO) higher standards than what they are currently being held to.
 

[Mike K.]

Yes, fair enough. There is always going to be a tug and pull when it comes to aesthetics and costs, for sure!