3104 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Wow! Maybe speeding and no bathroom stops! 

 

I think Google tries to calculate it with no speeding or bathroom breaks.

[Nparker]

The Budd Car, fully capable of speeds over 120kmh, went to Courtenay and back in 8.75 hours.

Clearly, a multi-passenger vehicle is going to have to make stops along the way; it's not exactly the equivalent of a non-stop air flight. The Dayliner made a "rest stop" in Nanaimo for around 20 minutes and about a 40 minute turn around in Courtenay to unload and re-load passengers for the return trip. I don't think it's fair to compare it with taking your Ferrari on a high speed road trip up-island.

Edited by Nparker, 26 January 2017 - 04:20 PM.

[jonny]

Wow! Maybe speeding and no bathroom stops! 

 

I've left Victoria at 6am and been skiing on Mount Washington by 9:30.

[Nparker]

I've left Victoria at 6 am and been skiing on Mount Washington by 9:30.

Could you leave Victoria at 9:00 AM and still be skiing by 12:30 PM?

[Old Esquimalt]

There's an interesting book that was published at Island Blue last year called "A Streetcar Named Conspire".  On the cover is a photo of two guys shaking hands and exchanging a check while a streetcar burns in the background.   http://www.streetcarcon.com/

 

It's a short course in reality for rail fans.

 

The rest of the developed world, of which we are an increasingly honorary member, long ago made the move to rail.  Unfortunately public investments in infrastructure require vision, foresight and determination.

 

If we had a proper rail link between downtown Victoria and Courtenay, with local stations and park & ride lots up and down the Island, a person could board the train in Courtenay or Langford and eat and work in comfort while riding to their job in Victoria. 

 

Of course that kind of investment needs to be part of an overall development plan for the Island.  We are united by our geography, but is there any such plan?  Is there even discussion of creating one? 

 

Leaders with vision should be able to create a growth and development plan that would bring businesses here from elsewhere.  Everything on this Island is connected to everything else. But efforts of this kind only spring out of leaders who really want to improve their region and their country.  That requires a mentality increasingly missing from our society.

 

The highways are subsidized, airports are subsidized, ferries are subsidized.  There is no reason why rail should not be equally subsidized. 

[VicHockeyFan]

I think you'll find that per passenger mile, most busy roads and highways have a minuscule subsidy.

[Old Esquimalt]

Oh?  Who is it that pays for the construction and maintenance of our roads and bridges?  Last I heard it was the taxpayers, through our gasoline tax, har-har, or has that changed?

[VicHockeyFan]

Oh?  Who is it that pays for the construction and maintenance of our roads and bridges?  Last I heard it was the taxpayers, through our gasoline tax, har-har, or has that changed?

 

Take the street I grew up on.  Cul de sac in Gordon Head.  About 18 or 22 homes.  Created, graded and paved in 1965.  Not paved since, more than 50 years.  So the only maintenance is street-sweeping and I guess some storm drain maintenance.    

[Old Esquimalt]

Take the street I grew up on.  Cul de sac in Gordon Head.  About 18 or 22 homes.  Created, graded and paved in 1965.  Not paved since, more than 50 years.  So the only maintenance is street-sweeping and I guess some storm drain maintenance.    

 

Good, but what does that have to do with who pays for the construction and maintenance of our roads and the question of how railway maintenance and operation should be funded?

[Mike K.]

Drivers pay far more than you might imagine. Each year we pay more in gas taxes on Vancouver Island than what we get back in road building and maintenance.

[VicHockeyFan]

Good, but what does that have to do with who pays for the construction and maintenance of our roads and the question of how railway maintenance and operation should be funded?

 

I'm showing you that there is very little subsidy on that street.  Today, say in Royal Bay, the developer pays for the cost of the streets too.  So Colwood taxpayers do not pay for the construction of those streets.

[57WestHills]

Drivers pay far more than you might imagine. Each year we pay more in gas taxes on Vancouver Island than what we get back in road building and maintenance.

If you ignore the massive additions to public debt for highway infrastructure, car ferries, and ancillary costs which don't directly create debt such as policing, ambulances, etc. This isn't an anti-car post, but the car is so heavily subsidized that the world of denial around it is painful to watch.

[Old Esquimalt]

I'm showing you that there is very little subsidy on that street.  Today, say in Royal Bay, the developer pays for the cost of the streets too.  So Colwood taxpayers do not pay for the construction of those streets.

 

The taxpayers paid for the street's construction, correct?  They pay for its maintenance, correct?  As a little used street it has needed little upkeep?  That's one of the beauties of railways: once built they cost comparatively very little to maintain for the amount they transport.

[lanforod]

The taxpayers paid for the street's construction, correct?  They pay for its maintenance, correct?  As a little used street it has needed little upkeep?  That's one of the beauties of railways: once built they cost comparatively very little to maintain for the amount they transport.

For most new developments requiring new streets these days, the developer pays the costs for the street, and stuff like sewer, water etc hookups, piping etc. So costs are paid for by the folks who purchase the homes. I'm not sure if that was the case back when Gordon Head was being built out. As for maintenance, it's highly likely that the share of tax paid by the local homeowners as a percentage of the cities maintenance paid, far exceeds the maintenance required on their road.

 

This doesn't address the major streets that everyone uses, and those are certainly more heavily subsidized. Still, the same applies as your statement 'once built they cost comparatively very little to maintain for the amount they transport'.

 

What really costs a lot and is heavily subsidized far beyond what they get used? Sidewalks. I'm not saying we don't need them, but there is a reason Saanich doesn't have many sidewalks...

[nagel]

We don't have sidewalks because the urban planners de jour considered them unnecessary in residential settings.

[lanforod]

And I agree, depending on the setting. I live on a road without sidewalks. It gets regular, but generally just local, traffic. There are a lot of kids. Street hockey is not uncommon. It's fine.

[Mike K.]

And unnecessarily costly.

Every year Vancouver Islanders pay approximately $250-million in gas taxes, if you can believe it. A tiny fraction of that money goes to pay for the so-called auto subsidies.

[Bingo]

 Sidewalks. I'm not saying we don't need them, but there is a reason Saanich doesn't have many sidewalks...

 

Sannich knew years ago that they would need to install bike lanes at some point, so why waste money on sidewalks if everyone is going to be cycling.

Edited by Bingo, 21 February 2017 - 09:28 AM.

[dasmo]

For most new developments requiring new streets these days, the developer pays the costs for the street, and stuff like sewer, water etc hookups, piping etc. So costs are paid for by the folks who purchase the homes. I'm not sure if that was the case back when Gordon Head was being built out. As for maintenance, it's highly likely that the share of tax paid by the local homeowners as a percentage of the cities maintenance paid, far exceeds the maintenance required on their road.

 

This doesn't address the major streets that everyone uses, and those are certainly more heavily subsidized. Still, the same applies as your statement 'once built they cost comparatively very little to maintain for the amount they transport'.

 

What really costs a lot and is heavily subsidized far beyond what they get used? Sidewalks. I'm not saying we don't need them, but there is a reason Saanich doesn't have many sidewalks...

They can't get used if they aren't there. I live in Sannich right now and one reason I don't like it is it lacks walk-ability big time. No sidewalks in the burb I'm in (as well as no pedestrian friendly location nearby) equates to no walking anywhere. Build it and they will come. The proof of that is Esquimalt road. A pedestrian walking along that road was a rare site indeed before they added the landscaped buffer beside the sidewalk....  

[nagel]

And unnecessarily costly.

Every year Vancouver Islanders pay approximately $250-million in gas taxes, if you can believe it. A tiny fraction of that money goes to pay for the so-called auto subsidies.

Yeah we've gone down this road before (pun intended) and you don't have any figures to back up the expenditure side.  Those gas taxes go into provincial and federal revenue but our road network is primarily paid by municipalities, only part of which is funded by gas tax grants.

 

I think also, moving forward, the gas tax model is making less sense as we're getting the 1%ers in electric vehicles who are getting somewhat of a free ride for that portion of the road funding.