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Roundabouts and traffic circles in the CRD


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#1 Bernard

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 12:08 PM

I am not convinced that the driving public in BC is able to understand how to use roundabouts. I have seen numerous problems on the ones used in the Tillicum Gorge neighbourhood. The existing one at the airport has numerous people going when they should be yielding and vice versa.

Given how badly people use them, it would be very easy to 'engineer' an accident where you are not at fault. Great way to get out of car payments if you are willing to take the risk.

The province should work hard to educate people on how to use roundabouts before building lots of them.

#2 G-Man

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:51 PM

I believe that it is in the driving handbook.

#3 LJ

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 07:20 PM

First of all they have to make them large enough to be effective.

Some of the small ones are too small to allow any flow of traffic, and a lot of bigger trucks just roll right over them.
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#4 G-Man

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 07:36 PM

The ones at Selkirk seem to work very well. They have been there over a decade now.

#5 phx

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:40 PM

First of all they have to make them large enough to be effective.


Those little ones are not round-abouts. They are just intersections with obstacles in the middle.

#6 amor de cosmos

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 07:24 AM

how to use a roundabout, from the ministry of transportation:
http://www.th.gov.bc...roundabouts.htm

#7 Bernard

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 09:56 AM

The ones at Selkirk seem to work very well. They have been there over a decade now.


There are enough people that do not know how to use the Selkirk ones, the only thing that stops accidents from happening is that the traffic is slow enough.

The one closest to Gorge Road often has people stopped in the roundabout letting others enter. People do not seem to get it that the traffic in the roundabout has the right of way.

#8 G-Man

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 10:58 AM

^ Hmm from my driving encounters there i have never a had a problem but that is usually on the weekend.

#9 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 04:00 PM

Given how badly people use them, it would be very easy to 'engineer' an accident where you are not at fault. Great way to get out of car payments if you are willing to take the risk.


And that's what peeps do in European cities. The big roundabout in Berlin is apparently infamous for that.

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#10 jklymak

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 04:48 PM

I am not convinced that the driving public in BC is able to understand how to use roundabouts.


I'm not convinced the driving public knows how to use on-ramps or parallel park. Doesn't mean they are a bad idea.

#11 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 04:52 PM

I'm not convinced the driving public knows how to use on-ramps or parallel park. Doesn't mean they are a bad idea.


No kidding, good one. The on-ramp thing drives me nuts. I used to work out of an office on Keating, I saw idiots pretty much daily. Nothing like coming down that one, southbound, down the hill, picking up some nice speed, only to find a turkey in front of you that gets cold feet at the bottom and stops. Speed and gravity are working hand in hand to make that a thrill.

#12 Bernard

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 05:25 PM

The small scale round abouts can handle people not knowing what they are doing, but once you get into using like they do in the UK as part of the motorway system, the speeds and traffic become much more of a problem. Hitting someone else at 10-15 km/h is not very dangerous, hitting at 50-60 km/h is much more dangerous.

Meanwhile on the note that people do many things they should not do, or do not know the rules of the road, I would argue we need to develop a much more serious system of re-testing of the public in BC.

Almost all of the accidents on our roads and highways are caused by driver in attention or driver lack of knowledge. The cost of requiring everyone to be re-tested as a driver once a decade strikes me as much cheaper than accidents that are caused by bad drivers.

I also think the testing process should be much more rigorous. A much higher bar will weed out a lot of the worst drivers on the road.

#13 mat

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:40 PM

Getting slightly off topic - but a good debate. The issue for the airport interchange is trying to realize what the expected traffic numbers might be with a planned runway expansion (more flights), the timing (early morning, late evening - mid afternoon?) and what kind of public transport might be included.

Roundabouts are not inherently bad, they can work in certain areas and with a driver culture that understands how to use them. Placing them ad hoc, not part of the main traffic plan on all intersections, does not work. All local drivers are used to stop lights, most (not all) can navigate 4 way stops - what I laugh about (and every European would do the same) is placing a stop sign at the entrance to a roundabout - what the point of that?

A roundabout is designed to keep traffic flowing using Yield concepts rather than 'stop'. They are best employed where streets come in at odd angles (blocking views), or more than 4 streets combine. (also very useful around school zones - but that is a different topic)

The main problem with the airport roundabout is curve and lane width - it is simply not large enough to comfortably handle buses and trucks.

#14 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:51 PM

All local drivers are used to stop lights, most (not all) can navigate 4 way stops


How come all that knowledge goes out the window when drivers are in a situation where the traffic lights are out due to a power outage? It's comical almost.

#15 Nparker

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:54 PM

How come all that knowledge goes out the window when drivers are in a situation where the traffic lights are out due to a power outage? It's comical almost.


Are drivers not supposed to treat the intersection as a 4-way stop in this scenario? If so, many local drivers seem to have issues with 4-way stops as mat notes above.

#16 mat

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:58 PM

How come all that knowledge goes out the window when drivers are in a situation where the traffic lights are out due to a power outage? It's comical almost.


It's a good point VHF - my guess is when lights are out at a straight single lane 4 way intersection most can handle the 4 way stop routine. It gets more complicated when you have left hand turn lanes on a dual lane street. Frankly even I have had issues deciding when to go left when the lights were out at Hillside/Shelbourne last year.

#17 G-Man

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 07:33 PM

Well I would say that the use of roundabouts in this case are not ad hoc as there is alreay one on the way to the airport. It in fact makes sense.

We can't not introduce new things just because they weren't there before. Roundabouts can handle as much traffic as a regular intersection especially ones with more than a single lane like these ones.

Where is there a round about with a stop sign at the entrance? I ave seen yield signs but no stop signs. Of course on approaching a roundabout I would probably not see a stop sign as it would be out of place.

#18 ZGsta

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 10:03 AM

I also think the testing process should be much more rigorous. A much higher bar will weed out a lot of the worst drivers on the road.


The bar is way way the hell higher now than when I got my license about 8 or 9 years ago. Seriously, if you're older than 25 (and got your license around your 16th), or got your license before the N system came in, you got one hell of a free ride compared with what you'd have to go through today.

#19 Linear Thinker

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 11:34 AM

Try this quiz:
http://www.icbc.com/...d/pass-veh/opkt

Proud to say I aced it, although it's not rocket science. BTW, there was one roundabout question. Questions are at random.

#20 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 11:58 AM

Try this quiz:
http://www.icbc.com/...d/pass-veh/opkt

Proud to say I aced it, although it's not rocket science. BTW, there was one roundabout question. Questions are at random.



I got one wrong before I got bored...

I liked this one:

A common cause of driver anger and frustration is:


...and one of the answers was:

an under-powered car.


I can see that... :P

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