5619 replies to this topic

[jonny]

This is a pretty free enterprise / pro business site. Why should we care that the parking landscape is shifting due to basic land economics? If a vacuum is created (i.e. we truly are short of parking and there's an economic case to run a parking lot business), a business will step in to fill the void. 

[VicHockeyFan]

Fill the void in what way? By building a parkade? The decision to allow that rezoning is purely political. So the politicians need first to indicate they are willing to allow such a private facility.

There is barely any indication that they even acknowledge the problem.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 12 October 2017 - 07:50 AM.

[jonny]

Fill the void by providing parking. 

 

So how do we know there is a problem? Parking spots have been lost. So what? Are downtown businesses shuttering?

[tjv]

^nope, they will take the money and build more bike lanes

 

I wouldn't know what the economics would be to build a private parkade, but I would imagine rates need to be a lot higher than what they are today.  We can already see the rents on the new apartment buildings vs the old stock

[VicHockeyFan]

Fill the void by providing parking.

So how do we know there is a problem? Parking spots have been lost. So what? Are downtown businesses shuttering?

Some are. A large portion have started a campaign to press the city. Hard to think that would happen if there was not a problem.

Chapters is leaving town.

[Nparker]

...Chapters is leaving town.

And there is as much nearby parking to Chapters now as there was when it first opened. What's your point?

[jonny]

Chapters will still be in Victoria. Have they said they are moving because there aren't enough surface parking lots nearby?

 

Look, things get re-allocated in an economy all the time. This is no different than Sears closing. Customers will still buy the same sort of things, just not from Sears. 

 

^nope, they will take the money and build more bike lanes

 

I wouldn't know what the economics would be to build a private parkade, but I would imagine rates need to be a lot higher than what they are today.  We can already see the rents on the new apartment buildings vs the old stock

 

If rates need to be higher, than so be it. We should not be subsidizing bloody parking, of all things. 

 

If the city wants to encourage more parking, they have carrots they can easily dangle to get the private sector engaged. 

[Jackerbie]

Parking will always be an issue downtown, just like affordable housing will always be an issue. As jonny said, it's simple land economics. And induced demand. If more parking is built and it becomes more attractive to drive, more people will drive. This will create the need for more parking, and then suddenly we have a congestion problem on our hands, too.

[VicHockeyFan]

And there is as much nearby parking to Chapters now as there was when it first opened. What's your point?

 

There is much, much, much less available parking near Chapters now than there was when it opened.  When it opened, parkades never filled, now most do by 10 or 11am.

[VicHockeyFan]

Chapters will still be in Victoria. Have they said they are moving because there aren't enough surface parking lots nearby?

 

Look, things get re-allocated in an economy all the time. This is no different than Sears closing. Customers will still buy the same sort of things, just not from Sears. 

 

 

If rates need to be higher, than so be it. We should not be subsidizing bloody parking, of all things. 

 

If the city wants to encourage more parking, they have carrots they can easily dangle to get the private sector engaged. 

 

I've never been opposed to higher parking rates for daily parkers.  But the politicians are opposed:  see the disparity between their fees on Wharf Street and the private lot next door, or their refusal for political reasons to make Sunday and holiday pay parking.

[Nparker]

There is much, much, much less available parking near Chapters now than there was when it opened

There are the same number of nearby parkades now as there were in the past. There is more demand perhaps for these spots since the more distant surface parking lots have been developed, but these lots have always been terrible use of land and it was inevitable they would one day get developed. If downtown business owners need more parking to satisfy their employees and customers, then they should be funding it, not the taxpayers. Isn't this what malls do? Even so, I doubt the availability of parking or lack thereof has played a significant role in Chapter's decision to leave downtown.

[VicHockeyFan]

Business owners downtown do fund the street and parkade parking, with their property tax dollars.  Every bit of property tax paid downtown is paid by the commercial tenants of the buildings.

 

Yes, there are the same number of parkades as there were years ago, but the percentage of all-day parkers in them is at an all-time high, so those parkers make less space available for shoppers that park for much less than a full day.

[jonny]

I've never been opposed to higher parking rates for daily parkers.  But the politicians are opposed:  see the disparity between their fees on Wharf Street and the private lot next door, or their refusal for political reasons to make Sunday and holiday pay parking.

 

This is a totally unrelated issue. 

 

Personally, I have never experienced trouble finding parking downtown on a Sunday or a holiday. The only time I have ever had problems parking on a weekend is in the buildup to Christmas. 

 

I think the only issue we have is a commuter issue. Commuters have gotten used to paying $10/day to park in a lot on the same block as their place of work. That's gone now, which is a good thing, all things considered! This is a pro-development site and we should be happy about that! It's up to commuters and their employers to solve their own problems, which many do in the form of on-site car parking, Pro Passes and bicycle parking/showers/etc. 

[jonny]

Business owners downtown do fund the street and parkade parking, with their property tax dollars.  Every bit of property tax paid downtown is paid by the commercial tenants of the buildings.

 

Yes, there are the same number of parkades as there were years ago, but the percentage of all-day parkers in them is at an all-time high, so those parkers make less space available for shoppers that park for much less than a full day.

 

On the flip side, parking users fund street and parkade parking through user fees. 

 

We also have an all-time high number of residents downtown and an all-time high number of office workers downtown. Downtown becoming more of a livable community and less of an open air shopping mall that shutters at 5pm is a good thing, all things considered. That's exactly what this site has been advocating for the entire time I have been a participant! 

[VicHockeyFan]

And I think most of us cheer every time we see a surface parking lot disappear and housing or office or retail takes its place.  But it would have also been smart for us to consider how that lost parking is replaced.  But we have no plan or policy.  

 

And I'm certainly less worried about commuters.  More of less by definition that are coming in to work, to earn money and if they own a car they can likely afford the monthly parking rates.

 

My concern mostly lies with the small business owners, that own stores and small offices downtown.  When they made their investment maybe 5 years ago, they did so with the understanding that their customers could come down, find a parking stall fairly easily, and yes, pay for it.  Now, just a few years later, their customers are having real difficulties finding parking.  And if I own a barber shop on Fort St, there is nothing I can do to help alleviate that, even though I want to.  So I look to the leaders.  But find they have no policy or plan.  

 

I'll say again, where are the next 2 DVBA projects promised this year?  Christmas is coming, and this will be the most crowded Christmas season for parking in City history..

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 12 October 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[moretrain]

If you understand current trends, car ownership is declining. So perhaps the city is following suit and not adding parking spots. I mean sure the population of the area is growing, but the percentage of drivers is decreasing. Parking should be furthest from priority for any city IMO.

 

 

 https://www.fastcomp...-figure-out-why

[jonny]

It's a hard issue to have perspective on. What's the benchmark? Maybe 5 years ago we had too much parking available. How easy should it be to find a parking spot at peak times? What should be the average or median search time? How often are parking garages and parking lots full? How do we incentive workers to walk a few blocks from a further out parking spot or even take the bus? What do parking rates need to be to ensure there are always spots available? 

Again, I don't think we have identified that there is a problem. A loss of 1,500 parking spots in and of itself does not mean there is a problem that needs to be solved. 1,500, that's just a statistic. Retail, office and condo vacancy rates are very low. 

If every spot is full, then our parking rates are too low. 

[VicHockeyFan]

If you understand current trends, car ownership is declining. 

 

You don't, you are reading speculative articles.  The data is very clear... car ownership per capita might be on a slight decrease, but there is no end in sight to a growing number of vehicles on the roads and in our cities.

 

 

Released: 2017-06-29

   Canada   Newfoundland and Labrador   Prince Edward Island   Nova Scotia   New Brunswick   Quebec   Ontario   Manitoba   Saskatchewan   Alberta   British Columbia   Yukon   Northwest Territories   Nunavut 

Total vehicle registrations — Canada

33.8 million

2016

 

1.8% 

(annual change)

Source(s): CANSIM table 405-0004.

The number of vehicles registered in Canada increased 1.8% from 2015 to 33.8 million in 2016.

The registrations of light road motor vehicles (vehicles weighing less than 4,500 kilograms) rose by 1.6% to 22.4 million, accounting for 92.3% of the total number of motorized road motor vehicles registered in 2016. The remaining consisted of motorcycles and mopeds (716,000 registrations), medium-duty trucks (590,000 registrations), heavy-duty trucks (463,000 registrations) and buses (91,000 registrations).

In addition to these road motor vehicles, 7.3 million trailers and 2.2 million off-road, construction and farm vehicles were also registered.

From a provincial perspective, the number of vehicles registered in Ontario reached 11.9 million (up 2.2% from 2015), followed by Quebec (up 2.5% to 8.4 million) and Alberta (up 0.2% to 5.1 million).

 

 

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 12 October 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[Mike K.]

I think we all need to take the following into consideration to understand why we are where we are:

 

In the 1960's the City of Victoria embarked on a massive campaign to build parkades in order to woo people into the downtown core who were in love with strip malls, shopping malls and increasingly embracing the trend of suburban living/shopping where access was easy and parking was readily available.

 

As the City of Victoria and the south Island grew, officials realized that as downtown buildings were being torn down by their owners (by razing a vacant building that's not accruing revenue but which carries a tax burden, the owner pays significantly less property tax for the vacant lot), the land was being re-allocated to provide private/commercial parking, for which demand was increasing due to population growth, etc. Now, as private money was doing this, there was no need for additional public parkades. 

 

And it was in this fashion that the City absolved itself from its commitment to ensuring that the businesses in downtown Victoria had the necessary public parking allocated throughout the downtown core to ensure their clientele could easily access their premises.

 

So fast forward to 2017 when formerly occupied building lots-turned parking lots throughout the 1960s-to-1990s are once again being turned into occupied building lots. And the City has no plan in place to step up and take over now that the supply of always temporary private/surface parking lots are once again being utilized for their ultimate intended purpose, leaving downtown with a severe under-supply of parking that the City should have seen coming a decade+ back.

[VicHockeyFan]

In short, the City needs to have a plan.  If that plan is "we have no desire to ease downtown parking congestion", then that's fine, lets see that plan in writing.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 12 October 2017 - 10:00 AM.