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Rethinking Esquimalt's Town Centre


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#1 Bluster

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:39 PM

Thought I would kick off a discussion about this, seeing as the Township is beginning to do some community planning around what they should do with the numerous properties they own in and around the town centre. Initially this planning started with a planning process around the future of the Archie Browning Sports Centre. Now the Township is exploring a more comprehensive approach to that property, a number of residences purchased around the mall and Rec Centre, the town square, old public works yard and old municipal building.

Personally, I would like to see an improved retail mall with a new ice sheet located somewhere in the precinct, maybe attached to the rec centre. Some low rise, affordable housing with mixed use retail on the street level, would also be good.

#2 Oxford Sutherland

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:49 PM

Esquimalt has a town centre?

#3 Scaper

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:12 PM

Once the DnD land gets sold off, Esquimalt has some huge opportunities to turn it's self around. This land could be prime high end real estate bringing in some huge tax revenue to the municipality.....if it doesn't become part of Victoria first.

Victoria has a chance to possibly try and merge the two municipalities together....though as the mayor said...as it's stands now Esquimalt only pays for 15 percent of the policing costs yet takes over 30 % of the police resourses. So the City of Victoria now sees the municipality as a liability though these expensive Gov't lands for sale leaves a huge opportunity for the next ten years for Esquimalt.

Maybe it would be in the interest of the City to take a hit now and merge with Esquimalt and plan for development of these lands thus in ten and twenty years the merge would be an amazing addition to Victoria.

Though propper planning of these properties would be essential for success.

#4 Bluster

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:13 PM

More of a strip mall right now. However with all of these properties there is an opportunity to dramatically change the look and feel of it. I think the mall element could certainly be improved, possibly by getting rid of the aging Sports Centre and replacing it with a more modern ice sheet closer to the rec centre.

Plus the recent Mosque into the BMO building, the development currently underway next to the Donair Shop (can't recall what is going in there off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it's low-rise residential/retail streetfront) and a furture redevelopment of the old liquor store at Esquimalt and Admirals. There is lots going on over here!

#5 Bluster

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:21 PM

Esquimalt politics being what they are, I don't think you'll ever see interest from this side of the Blue Bridge in merging with Victoria. Look at the big flap over the fire contract. Police services never would have merged either, had the Province not stepped in and ordered it.

#6 Scaper

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:23 PM

on the water front it would make sence to build 18 - 20 story towers. Save some views by narrower taller buildings and the upper levels would have amazing views. Thus generating some huge tax revenue for Esquimalt. Also this will be expensive land and it should be maximized for units volumes and types and affordability for some lower end suites too.

Esquimalt really needs to identify itself....it shares this problem with Saanich.


I also wonder if (as the city reaches 400,000 plus people) they will ever build a bridge for either cars and or lrt from the end of esquimalt Rd. to Ocean Bullevard in Colwood?

This would eliminate Esquimalts Dead End problem and could really change it too.

#7 Bluster

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:36 PM

As far as regional transportation goes, I think the E&N Rail Trail concept is the way to go with light rail on the tracks and trail systems beside it for bikes.

The Swallow's Landing development is a good example of what you propose along the waterline.

#8 Scaper

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:48 PM

I am glad that Esquimalt sees the need for diversifying it's tax base and the need for new development. Especially as other areas of Victoria (West Coms) are placing 5,000 plus units in more than one development iin the middle of forrests and mountian sides.

The question is do we want more and more massive fat scrapers like Swallows landing, shoal point, etc. where all view are blocked by their massive spread and girth. Or do we want to see taller leaner buildings saving view cones and in my opinion can be much more elegant in design.

My other opion for the taller buildings are they allow more light around them compared to their fat cousins, and as you build up you share the land costs across many more units thus the developer can afford to build larger units for families at a cheaper price.

My main beef with short buildings on expensive land is the Dock Side project. Here we have even the affordable units being sold to people who make 60,000 dollars a year income....(these are the affordable housing units) had the project been doubled in height these units could have been offered to those who truely need them, and to Government Managers etc.


These are my thoughts anyways.

#9 G-Man

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 09:07 PM

I think that the people of Esquimalt would have a much different opinion of amalgamating with Victoria than their council. Remember after screwing the fire contract that Mayor lost re-election partly because of that incredibly stupid decision.

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#10 Scaper

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 09:09 PM

Can anyone explain to me in brief.....how the fire contract got screwed???

#11 G-Man

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 09:11 PM

The mayor upon election cancelled the merging of Victoria Fire and Esquimalt Fire. It cost the muni a ton of money and also some lawsuits from the Vic firefighters that had been hired to expand the service.

After a very tumultuous and expensive three years the mayor was tossed.

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#12 Mike K.

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 09:23 PM

Yeah, Robinson goofed up big time.

Esquimalt needs to concentrate on its positives and not try and consistently defend itself from accusations about its negatives. Esquimalt has an amazing waterfront; it has a huge economic anchor (no pun!); its close to Victoria's downtown; it has the E&N right of way; and it has some amazing neighbourhoods that rival many in Oak Bay.

What it needs now is to increase its density around its economic nodes. How would it do that? It's quite simple: the township should work with developers to house the navy's personnel!. That, and the township should open itself for business and more growth, something I do not believe it has done on the scale of other munis. Some development for navy personnel is taking shape, but it's in lacklustre four-storey woodframe buildings. Some people genuinely want to live in a concrete building, perhaps not as far removed from commercial services as are the current four-storey buildings going up near the base entrace.

As for that four-storey building going up by the donair shop, for some reason I was under the impression it's going to be an office building??

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#13 Bluster

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 11:35 AM

I agree with most of your points. However I think many residents in Esquimalt would like to see a good balance between diversifying the tax base (more density) and atmosphere/ambience/amenities in the Town Centre. What's there now is just a strip mall, but going full bore into density just to diversify the tax base won't make it any more attractive to residents who patronize the businesses located there.

Waterfront is a big plus, for sure. There has been talk about connecting the West Bay Walkway with a trail system all the way through to Macaulay Point. Esquimalt's Parks are also extrordinary.

DND land divesture is the big question and you point to some interesting possibilities in that area as well.

#14 Scaper

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 12:00 PM

That walkway is an amazing idea.....

#15 gumgum

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 12:03 PM

Macaulay point will be in limbo until the CRD finally decides what to do about sewage.

#16 Bluster

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 08:26 PM

DND still owns the land and the Township is working with them.

They've got open houses in every community over the next few months on sewage treatment. Esquimalt's in a few weeks, I sure wanna hear what's being planned. Western Communities is the place to do it. NIMBY

#17 obscurantist

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 01:17 PM

I know there's a more recent thread about Esquimalt in general [url=http://vibrantvictoria.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=375&highlight=esquimalt:1d116]here[/url:1d116], but thought I'd post this story here as it's about the town centre (or lack thereof) in particular.

[url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=0ae760d9-b621-4a6a-955b-5504863edf97:1d116]...the municipality wants to find out what the community would like to see done with a plethora of municipally owned facilities in the downtown core. Rather than have them developed piecemeal, resulting in patchwork development, the town wants to develop an overall plan for the area.[/url:1d116]

This week's vote is on a motion to start looking for a consultant, who would work with municipal staff, residents and community groups and develop a "vision" and planning principles for the village core. ... That overall plan would then be used when -- or if -- the municipality proceeded to develop all or some of the land.

There are few urban municipalities that have the opportunity to potentially redevelop a total of 2.8 hectares of prime real estate in their core, especially at a time when some of the buildings are showing their age and are in need of expensive renovations. ...

Municipally owned land to be considered in the process includes the public safety building (police and fire), the old municipal hall, the old public works buildings, the town square, the teen centre, a rental house on Fraser Street, Bullen Park, and the skating rink, curling rink and parking lot that comprise the Archie Browning Centre.

Times have changed for Esquimalt and the Greater Victoria area. About 10 years ago, the municipality floated the idea of redeveloping the old town hall and public works buildings. There was little interest. But a decade later, with property values through the roof in some parts of the region, interest in Esquimalt is growing. Its land prices are lower than most other municipalities, but it's close to downtown and the waterfront. Already, some developers have made overtures....

With the municipality's 17,000 population expected to double in the next 20 years, the official community plan allows for high density in certain commercial areas, with buildings up to 10 storeys. ...



#18 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 01:48 PM

Read that article and put it together with a letter-to-the-editor in today's T-C. Kim Westad's [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=0ae760d9-b621-4a6a-955b-5504863edf97&k=1492:16626]Esquimalt gears for renewal[/url:16626] is about Esquimalt's plans for "downtown revitalization project that could see the municipality on the other side of the blue bridge become one of the most progressive in the region." It's touted as the "Esquimalt Village Project."

The letter by Paul Crowley, [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/letters/story.html?id=c312d317-913c-4a0c-b048-2569b6ae09f2:16626]Esquimalt is getting more children[/url:16626], talks about how Esquimalt is becoming a municipality of choice for families. He points out that when seniors in Esquimalt downsize, their houses (with enough bedrooms and a yard) are bought by price-conscious young families with children. He describes Esquimalt as "one of the only remaining affordable family housing areas outside of the Western Communities." He adds that the elderly are moving to "more affordable housing options throughout the city," which would seem to mean condos.

So in that sense, building more residential downtown (even non-family, small units) increases the chance that newcomers and down-sizers will take those spots, freeing up appropriate housing for families.

Esquimalt could see quite a make-over, if the municipal "vision" thing plus demographics (younger families) & economics (relatively "affordable" house prices) come together.
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#19 Mike K.

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 09:17 AM

VILLAGE PROJECT VISIONS WANTED

By Kelly Howard
News staff
Jun 08 2007

Find out more at open houses June 14 and 21 and at Buccaneer Days

Residents of Esquimalt will have two chances this month to learn about the proposed Esquimalt Village Project and help craft a vision for the development.

At open houses on June 14 and 21, consultants Hoston Bakker Bonifice Haden and Landeca and municipal representatives will speak with residents and stake holders who have vested interests in the Village Project.

The village project, which is in its early planning stages, involves revitalizing the town core to “capitalize on and enhance the value of public and private assets,” according to a backgrounder posted on the town’s website. The project’s properties include the municipally owned Bullen Park, 535 and 537 Fraser St., the Esquimalt Recreation Centre parking lot, the Archie Browning Recreation Centre and the old municipal hall at 510 Park Pl.

“This is a gathering of ideas, images and thoughts,” said Suzanne Samborski, the town’s director of community redevelopment and sustainability.

The two informal gatherings are designed to promote communication between the community and consultants, and to “really understand the must-haves of the residents,” Samborski said.

Those who can’t wait for the open houses can drop by the project team’s table at Buccaneer Days today (Friday) from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the Archie Browning Sports Centre, 1151 Esquimalt Rd.

The open houses will take place at the Equimalt Recreation Centre, 527 Fraser St., from 4 to 8 p.m. both days.

On June 14, consultants will focus the discussion on the Archie Browning centre, which had been slated for closure until town council reversed that decision in the wake of a public outcry.

Samborski says there are no preconceived notions around the 40-year-old arena. Interested parties can express what amenities and recreational facilities are important to Esquimalt.

“It is not a formal town meeting,” Samborski said. “It is a chance for us to listen and ask questions... understanding the values of the community.”

On June 21, consultants want input about the Esquimalt Village core as a whole.

While nothing has been shortlisted for the development, that hasn’t stopped people from steadily making suggestions.

“We’ve had some interesting calls,” Samborski said, “This is really exciting.”

The project area includes the old municipal hall, the public safety building, the recreation centre parking lot, Bullen Park and the Archie Browning Sports Centre.

From the suggestions collected at the open houses, the consulting team will “filter” the information and present it to council by the end of June.

For more information, go to http://www.esquimalt...s_releases.html.

For more about the Esquimalt Village Project, go to http://www.esquimalt... ... roject.htm.

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#20 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 09:30 AM

Not sure which thread to ask this in, but does anyone know what project the letter writer is referencing?

[url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/letters/story.html?id=207426ee-3161-44ff-8cbf-203c984c6d3c:5fc25]Esquimalt tower ignores the rules[/url:5fc25]
Times Colonist
Published: Saturday, June 23, 2007

I'm recovering from watching a numbered company from Vancouver push a massive 16-storey building through the Esquimalt advisory planning commission Tuesday night over the objections of every member of the public present.

I'm befuddled. The tower, some 50 metres high, pushes concrete to within inches of the property lines in a neighbourhood heretofore happily improving -- a collection of duplexes, small apartments and single-family homes. Density is double that allowed.

This beast violates at least three basic tenets of the official plan. The developer has failed to comply with public notification requirements. The developer was also revealed as factually incorrect, before the commission, about who had been consulted. And yet we move ahead?

What is the point of public input, notification requirements or a community plan?

Robert Craig,

Victoria.

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007


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