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CANCELLED
Johnson Street Gateway
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 1314-1324 Wharf Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 8
Condo units: (studio/bachelor, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR, penthouse, live-work)
Sales status: in planning
The eight-storey Johnson Street Gateway/Northern Junk condominium and ground floor commercial development is c... (view full profile)
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[Downtown Victoria] Johnson Street Gateway (Northern Junk) | condos; commercial | 7-storeys | Cancelled in 2019

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#1001 dasmo

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:51 PM

Here is a quick doodle of an alternate. Moves the path over so the slope on the NJ side is less steep and there can be more depth to its pedestrian zone. Widens the stairs so there is more spots to sit after crossing the bridge. A place to rest and look at the view. This is also what the raise planter would do. There is also a little less trees so the area is more open feeling. There is also a bit more of a square in the middle of the the NJ complex this way. Forget about a pocket park, just make this the best urban space it can be...

14brdau.jpg


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#1002 Mike K.

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:06 PM

Yes, the blue path will become the "path" just days after this opens to the public.


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#1003 Jon S

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

The new design for the Northern Junk project will work well with either of these schemes.  One concern with the City scheme though is as the the NJ sits at the Wharf Street grade and as the City plaza / ramp dives down towards the water it is immediately below the Nj retail (south) and the bridge deck to the North ( no view of or over bridge). This may be a lost opportunity to activate the Public Space with the NJ North Facing retail. Cafe Patios etc.

 

In the end though this is a City initiative as part of the bridge and we are just doing our best to tie in to what the final design is.


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#1004 dasmo

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:30 AM

So move the path like I illustrated above. If you want to sway a new design by the city and rally support propose a design that is better!

#1005 Rob Randall

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:12 PM

Excerpt from a Nov. 12 FB post by the Hallmark Heritage Society regarding the existing structure:

 

[...]Unfortunately, the current owners seem to be allowing the buildings to deteriorate by not performing some of the simple maintenance items required under City of Victoria bylaws.

There is a bylaw that states all graffiti shall be cleaned up and removed as quickly as possible. There is another bylaw, “The Heritage Properties Maintenance Standards Bylaw,” that requires the owner to “… maintain it to a reasonable extent to prevent, or effectively retard, damage from elements of weather and infestation….” AND “….. must protect its exterior finish materials..,” AND, “… must promptly remove graffiti from the building by using techniques that avoid or minimize damage to the building.”

There is little doubt that the Owner of these buildings on Wharf Street is not in compliance with the bylaw. Graffiti is covering the backs and sides of the two buildings. Steps must be taken to remove this graffiti in such a manner that does not harm the original sandstone which makes up the base of the building. Further, water running down the rear façade has eroded the mortar joints and allows plant life to take root causing further disruptions to the mortar with possible water seeping into the building and damaging what little remains of the original wood structure below. Some months ago we sent an email to the Owner’s suggesting that steps be taken. Nothing has been done to date. The Hallmark Heritage Society must now take further action.

 



#1006 AllseeingEye

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:27 PM

Is there any other city - anywhere on earth, anyone? - where a 5 storey proposal would be so contentious that it would occupy 50+ pages on an online forum and where the existing crappy, decrepit POS structures, literally falling down and in pieces, would be the subject of hand wringing 'Wrath of God' stuff in spite of the fact a good portion of them would be incorporated into the new development?

 

I love my hometown but sometimes it is just completely off the anal retentive scale; how can New York City suffer the loss of TWO 100+ storey buildings - you know folks, actual and for-real skyscrapers and not what we laughingly refer to here as "towers" - in a catastrophic terror attack and yet recover emotionally, clean up the mess and then scope, design, approve, fund and BUILD the replacement in less than 13 years - and this little burgh is still arguing about the design of a structure that is no higher than I could spit given a good tail wind? Seriously?


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#1007 Coreyburger

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:32 PM

Is there any other city - anywhere on earth, anyone? - where a 5 storey proposal would be so contentious that it would occupy 50+ pages on an online forum and where the existing crappy, decrepit POS structures, literally falling down and in pieces, would be the subject of hand wringing 'Wrath of God' stuff in spite of the fact a good portion of them would be incorporated into the new development?

 

Most cities in the Western world? Anywhere with Euclidean planning bylaws? Context matters. This is in a highly visible location.



#1008 aastra

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:39 PM

 

The Hallmark Heritage Society must now take further action.

 

I just hope they aren't as hard on these guys as they were on the city re: the JSB's maintenance. We all know how merciless the Hallmark Heritage Society was on that issue.*

 

*they were like wet tissue paper


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#1009 Rob Randall

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:43 PM

Is there any other city - anywhere on earth, anyone? - where a 5 storey proposal would be so contentious that it would occupy 50+ pages on an online forum and where the existing crappy, decrepit POS structures, literally falling down and in pieces, would be the subject of hand wringing 'Wrath of God' stuff in spite of the fact a good portion of them would be incorporated into the new development?

 

Any old town or old city district in Europe, for one. We've botched harbour proposals in the past. No harm in making sure we don't screw this one up. But yeah, we need to quicken the timeline with these projects.

 

I just hope they aren't as hard on these guys as they were on the city re: the JSB's maintenance. We all know how merciless the Hallmark Heritage Society was on that issue.*

 

Ooh, good one.



#1010 AllseeingEye

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 01:08 PM

Most cities in the Western world? Anywhere with Euclidean planning bylaws? Context matters. This is in a highly visible location.

Please - more visible or iconic than the NYC waterfront? Higher profile than the Vancouver waterfront upon which there are dozens of infinitely taller buildings? What exactly is it you are looking at directly across the way - oh that's right....a Delta Hotel

 

I understand what you are saying but as Rob alludes to in his follow on response this city has to get it's act together. There is no reason - no excuse at all, none - for sites to sit for years (decades!) underdeveloped and representing nothing more than a blight on the landscape. Either completely re-habilitate them or get it done and re-development them. And either way pick up the pace. I doubt very many tourists in Iowa or Manitoba or Spuzzum are saying "hey remember that POS, falling-down building on the Victoria waterfront? Well by gum Alice we need to go back and dump some $$$$ into local coffers and see that beauty again!"


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#1011 Mr Cook Street

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 01:37 PM

Any updates on this?



#1012 Mixed365

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 02:13 PM

The owner is Reliance Properties, no? Pretty busy with you know, the huge success and revitalization of the Janion. 

Calm down Hallmark Heritage Society, it will come with time. Stop getting in the way. 


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“To understand cities, we have to deal outright with combinations or mixtures of uses, not separate uses, as the essential phenomena.”
- Jane Jacobs 


#1013 Mike K.

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 10:49 AM

Yes it's Reliance. They've gone back to the drawing board on this one.


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#1014 G-Man

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 11:41 AM

That is really too bad. It was pretty much perfect...
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Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#1015 Baro

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 12:03 PM

Revisions cost a lot of money too... 


"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#1016 Mixed365

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:09 PM

Revisions do cost a lot of money. And that cost is either:

A - Passed onto the purchaser
 

or 

 

B - Absorbed by the developer

 

A = Less affordable housing for Victorians

B = Decreased quality in materials/workmanship or parts of the project taken out to save costs

Again, Hallmark Heritage Society, please get out the way. We all know you have been consulted. If you continue to prod we all lose. 


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“To understand cities, we have to deal outright with combinations or mixtures of uses, not separate uses, as the essential phenomena.”
- Jane Jacobs 


#1017 Baro

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:16 PM

Each re-design can cost tens or even hundreds of thousands.  Architecture isn't cheap.  A design document might "only" cost a few tens of thousands of dollars, but every time you re-do it, it adds up.  Back to the drawing board a couple times, some more fine tuning, another re-design, more fine tuning, another round of council, more fine tuning.  You can easily eat up the cost of an entire condo just with the revisions alone.  Worse still,  99% of the time the revisions are demanding the developer scale things back, reduce height, reduce density.  Then at the end they yell "why aren't you including any affordable units? Where's the family units?? Why are you scaling back amenities?"

 

It's infuriating.  Have clear standards, let them submit something that matches those standards and then approve it.  It's ok to be picky, but exactly lay out what you're being picky about before hand so no one's time is wasted.  Victoria has a real "I'll know it when I see it" attitude towards what a good development is, which in the end is getting us worse developments.


"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#1018 Nparker

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:26 PM

The Hallmark Society won't be satisfied with this proposal until the developer restores the existing buildings to better than their original 19th century condition, dedicates the rest of the space to a park and perhaps tears down the Victoria Regent Hotel just for good measure.


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#1019 Mr Cook Street

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:35 PM

I fear it will just result in a diminished plan. Seems inevitable. It is such a waste of space as it stands currently. 'Green space' that no one ever uses between that small parking lot and Wharf Street. Buildings that are a convenient place to pee....sigh. I did really like that last plan. So much opportunity for public interaction with the space and the harbour.

 

Don't give up Jon, we appreciate your vision!


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#1020 Mixed365

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 01:47 PM

I agree Mr CS. We should be praising and working with people like Jon who are taking huge risks, instead of fear mongering and publicly shaming. He is doing a great thing. 

I would also love for the Hallmark Heritage Society to take a look all of his projects around Gastown, maybe they will realize that people like him know what they are doing and aren't out to diminish or degrade the urban form, rather to enhance it and make it usable. Lest we forget all that is being done now is well, as Mr CS stated, being used as a public washroom. Now thats more degrading for a 19th century building no?



 


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“To understand cities, we have to deal outright with combinations or mixtures of uses, not separate uses, as the essential phenomena.”
- Jane Jacobs 


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