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#201 jonny

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 02:11 PM

^ More fundamentally then that is determining what the actual role of the Navy is. Nuke subs, as an example, might be a solution if our goal was to try and thwart a Russian or Chinese attack but I personally don't see any risk of that happening any time soon.

 

Call it the deterrent and/or muscle factor. Not to mention as ASE said, we do have international obligations.

 

We have troops on the ground in Latvia right now acting as a deterrent to Russia. Don't think for a second that things are guaranteed to be quiet on the Russia front.

 

The Chinese and Russians may think twice about sniffing around our Arctic if we possessed something to be afraid of.

 

Anyway, I guess my point is that I understand that we won't be great at everything, when it comes to the military, but my strategy would be to pick a handful of areas to really excel at, rather than be stretched thin everywhere.



#202 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

I have a question.  Do we have a military plan for when the mage-thrust earthquake hits with its epicentre in Richmond?   Isn't this part of what the military could do, plan for stuff?


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 16 June 2017 - 02:15 PM.

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#203 57WestHills

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 02:19 PM

I have a question. Do we have a military plan for when the mage-thrust earthquake hits with its epicentre in Richmond?


Yes. It's exercised every Spring.

#204 spanky123

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 02:42 PM

Yes. It's exercised every Spring.

 

The Navy ships board their crew, families and belongings and sail to Halifax!



#205 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 03:00 PM

Yes. It's exercised every Spring.

 

Can we see a copy of that plan?

 

EDIT:  Oh, here it is, nice...

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...dness-1.3995258


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 16 June 2017 - 03:01 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#206 Bingo

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 06:39 AM

The poor old RCN - just can't buy a break apparently - not sure how the heck you run into a stationary sub but there you go.

 

No gold star for navigation for whoever was at the helm of the Orca-class vessel and depending on the circumstances it might even mean the end of a career or at least any aspiration to command a vessel:

 

http://vancouverisla...imalt-1.3461092

 

Here is what is said about the how the destroyer USS Fitzgerald came to collide with a freighter in the waters off Japan in the middle of the night, with the loss of 7 sailors lives.

 

The Navy will not be afraid to hold itself to account for this.

That leads us to the third thing we can safely know: accountability. It won't be just the Navy that gets the lash here. Careers will be dashed. People will be punished.
Short of battle at sea, Navy warships are not supposed to hit anything -- not the ground, not each other, and certainly not container ships in the middle of the night.
The commanding officer, Cmdr. Bryce Benson, will almost certainly be the first to go.


#207 AllseeingEye

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:17 PM

/\......yes the USN won't fool around; depending on the circumstances and who was supposed to be doing what and when - and as of now I think there are far more questions than answers at this point - all things being equal, the board of inquiry in general won't hesitate to hold accountable and toss the book at the commanding officer. Poor buggers below decks probably never knew what hit them. Hopefully the end came mercifully fast. Given the location of the collision and the huge bulbous underwater bows on modern ships, its a wonder the newer container ship didn't rip the guts out of the destroyer.



#208 LJ

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:45 PM

^or set some munitions off.


Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#209 Bingo

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:33 PM

 Given the location of the collision and the huge bulbous underwater bows on modern ships, its a wonder the newer container ship didn't rip the guts out of the destroyer.

 

           The 29,000 ton freighter ACX Crystal

ACX_CRYSTAL.jpg

 

           A Greek trireme

             Rams were fitted to the prows of warships, and were used to rupture the hull of the enemy ship.

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trireme

            Ancient_Greek_Trireme_Obj_83_0_img.jpg

 

          


Edited by Bingo, 19 June 2017 - 09:35 PM.

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#210 Bingo

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 05:28 AM

/\......yes the USN won't fool around; depending on the circumstances and who was supposed to be doing what and when - and as of now I think there are far more questions than answers at this point - all things being equal, the board of inquiry in general won't hesitate to hold accountable and toss the book at the commanding officer.

 

A 10,000 ton destroyer is far more maneuverable than a 29,000 ton freighter.

The damage to the starboard side of the USS Fitzgerald likely means that the freighter ACX Crystal had the right-of-way.

https://en.wikipedia...llisions_at_Sea



#211 Mike K.

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 05:40 AM

Typically larger vessels must yield to smaller vessels, no? I think the consensus is that the Crystal was conducting a u-turn at the time of the collision.

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#212 57WestHills

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 05:44 AM

Typically larger vessels must yield to smaller vessels, no?.


No - albeit a bit of a over-simplification. It's impossible both vessels won't be at fault. It's just a question of who screwed up more. Given the size of the watch on a Naval ship this is outstandingly bizarre.
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#213 jonny

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:59 AM

IIRC from my boating course all those years ago, RIGHT of way typically applies to two mechanically propelled boats. If the Navy boat was hit on the starboard (ie right) side, the merchant ship likely had the right of way.

#214 jonny

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:01 AM

That being said, the merchant vessel should have noticed that it was on a collision course. There are all types of automated radars, not to mention a mariner or two on watch, that should have warned the helmsman.

#215 lanforod

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:03 AM

IIRC from my boating course all those years ago, RIGHT of way typically applies to two mechanically propelled boats. If the Navy boat was hit on the starboard (ie right) side, the merchant ship likely had the right of way.

 

Almost certainly if they were going the same direction, but not if they were going opposite directions, in which case its equally on each other to avoid the ship to their right.



#216 Mike K.

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:33 AM

The Crystal was doing a u-ee, though, which complicates the situation. If a vessel travelling parallel to yours suddenly engages in a u-turn that could be missed until suddenly both vessels are in each others path.


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#217 Bingo

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:55 AM

That being said, the merchant vessel should have noticed that it was on a collision course. 

 

If two vessels are approaching each other head on they each need to alter their course so as to pass port to port. (left side to left side)

The damage to the destroyers starboard side would not have occurred if this was done.

It the freighter was approaching the destroyer from it's starboard side on a 90 course, the freighter has the right of way and the destroyer needed to alter course to pass astern of the freighter.

more; https://www.usps.org...tankertips.html



#218 Bingo

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:03 AM

The Crystal was doing a u-ee, though, which complicates the situation. If a vessel travelling parallel to yours suddenly engages in a u-turn that could be missed until suddenly both vessels are in each others path.

 

A freighter would take take a long time to do a U-Turn which would not be allowed in busy shipping lanes, and any course alteration would be picked up on radar long before it was a problem.

 

I suppose there could be an investigation to see if this was an attack on the US Navy, as anything is possible if the ship had been taken over by terrorists.



#219 Rob Randall

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:28 AM

The report that the freighter was doing a crazy loop before the accident is false, due to an error in fixing the time of the collision.

 

See animated gif here: https://www.nytimes....fitzgerald.html

 

A ship's captain will have a standing order saying, "Wake me if a ship is approaching within x metres" and that number is the captain's choice. Some are ultra cautious and get woken up every few hours, others are more slack and leave it up to the discretion of the crew on duty.

 

It's sounds like the Queen of the North in a lot of ways.

 

Of course, these days you can't rule out terrorism, either.



#220 tedward

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:39 AM

.... a mariner or two on watch, that should have warned the helmsman.

 

Helmsman? What a quaint 20th century notion. I think you meant, helmsbot. ;)


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