Jump to content

      









Photo

[Esquimalt] Dockyard / Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt | U/C


  • Please log in to reply
228 replies to this topic

#221 AllseeingEye

AllseeingEye

    AllSeeingEye

  • Member
  • 2,701 posts
  • LocationEsquimalt/Gorge

Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:13 AM

Although the details have yet to fully emerge naturally, and all the pieces sorted into a coherent picture. something nevertheless seems off about this incident. Although anything is possible, including a deliberate act to cripple the destroyer, per this article from The Atlantic the most likely cause(s) appear to point to "professional negligence" on behalf potentially of both ships' officers and/or bridge crews:

 

https://www.theatlan...llision/530793/

 

Moreover the full picture may never emerge if, as suggested here, the USN decides to declare the destroyer's radar and communications records 'classified'.



#222 jonny

jonny
  • Member
  • 6,483 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:24 AM

Helmsman? What a quaint 20th century notion. I think you meant, helmsbot. ;)

 

Believe it or not, somebody on the bridge is still in charge of steering, even if the ship is on autopilot. Quartermasters still exist. They still have human beings keeping watch, as well, who operate the AIS, monitor visual and radar targets, etc.

 

Things like this only happen after a series of moderate to major screw ups.



#223 Bingo

Bingo
  • Member
  • 13,401 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:10 AM

USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62), named for United States Navy officer Lieutenant William Charles Fitzgerald, is an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer in the US Navy.

USS Cole (DDG-67) is an Arleigh Burke-class Aegis-equipped guided missile destroyer homeported in Naval Station Norfolk, Virginia.

 

Both ships are of the same class and were launched in the mid 90's.

 

On 12 October 2000, while at anchor in AdenCole was attacked by Al-Qaeda suicide bombers, who sailed a small boat near the destroyer and detonated explosive charges.

The blast created a hole in the port side of the ship about 40 feet (12 m) in diameter, killing 17 crewmembers and injuring 39.

https://en.wikipedia...S_Cole_(DDG-67)

 

 

 

 


"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance" - Socrates


#224 jonny

jonny
  • Member
  • 6,483 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 12:33 PM

From the pictures I have seen, the Fitzgerald looks like it might be beyond economical repair.



#225 AllseeingEye

AllseeingEye

    AllSeeingEye

  • Member
  • 2,701 posts
  • LocationEsquimalt/Gorge

Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:18 PM

Believe it or not, somebody on the bridge is still in charge of steering, even if the ship is on autopilot. Quartermasters still exist. They still have human beings keeping watch, as well, who operate the AIS, monitor visual and radar targets, etc.

 

Things like this only happen after a series of moderate to major screw ups.

Well and here you go, direct from the horse's mouth. In the USN on a "typical" warship there are 6-10 CIC folks, in addition to the bridge crew under the command of the OOD reporting directly to the ship's commander. And that is exclusive of the fore/aft/bridge lookouts physically scanning the surrounding sea....

 

Given all the human and electronic means that should be monitoring the destroyer's position at any given time it is difficult to conceive how this incident even happens. Even assuming a skeleton crew on the freighter (by comparion to the far larger crew and more stringent seamanship practices on the destroyer) and even if it did perform an "unexpected" last minute U-turn, how the ships even got close enough to collide in the first place is hard to envision -

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...ecommended_pool



#226 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Member
  • 45,113 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:26 PM

Ya, even if the freighter swerved in, it should have set off alarms on the warship, and you are right, it should have not been close enough to begin with.  I suspect multiple errors on both ships.



#227 jonny

jonny
  • Member
  • 6,483 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

Large ships I have been on have the following working on the bridge at a minimum:

- One commanding officer who is in charge of navigation (Master, First Officer, Second Officer, etc.)

- One Quartermaster who is steering / monitoring course/heading

- One Quartermaster as lookout

 

Closed loop communication is standard in a maritime environment as well. (i.e. lookout tells CO "Container ship 2km off our starboard bow". CO repeats the message back as affirmation.)

 

A fancy US Navy boat would have multiple radars, multiple AIS systems and multiple GPS systems. How things like this tragic accident is a growing field of study commonly referred to as Human Factors.

 

For example. Billy the lookout assumed the CO knew there was a cargo ship off their starboard bow and that the person steering the boat had been told how to properly react by the CO. By the time the communication breakdowns became apparent, it was too late.

 

Note that container ships and modern navy ships are quite fast. Most container ships can move 25 knots over ground. The USS Fitzgerald was apparently capable of speeds in excess of 30 knots. Those are fast speeds by maritime standards, and much faster than our local ferries, as a comparison.



#228 jonny

jonny
  • Member
  • 6,483 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 02:16 PM

Ya, even if the freighter swerved in, it should have set off alarms on the warship, and you are right, it should have not been close enough to begin with.  I suspect multiple errors on both ships.

 

Multiple errors, without a doubt. Radar and AIS systems are alarmed. They even tell you how many minutes/seconds you are away from collision.



#229 Bingo

Bingo
  • Member
  • 13,401 posts

Posted 20 June 2017 - 02:44 PM

 Most container ships can move 25 knots over ground. The USS Fitzgerald was apparently capable of speeds in excess of 30 knots.

 

The damage to the destroyer was on the starboard (right) side of the ship, and the damage to the container ship was on the port (left) side.

The tracking only shows that of the freighter travelling at 17 knots or 20 miles per hour

see photos of damage and course diagram.

https://www.nytimes....fitzgerald.html


"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance" - Socrates


 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users