94 replies to this topic

[Sparky]

In order to help focus on the problem at hand, Mrs Sparky and I went and had a look today for ourselves. It would appear that trucks have been accessing the farm off of the Pat Bay Highway, along East Saanich Road (which for the most part is within the municipal boundaries of Saainch (not Central Saanich) and has a new sign with a load limit for trucks. They then turn right down a short lane, then left to one of the entrances to the farm. It would also appear that the trucks have been nipping at a rock wall of a neighbor at the corner, see below makeshift barrier and sign with some pretty direct language about breaking the law.




This is the entrance to the farm after the left turn by the barricade.



There does however appear to be a solution to this problem. If the trucks were to travel further along the highway to Island View and then right along Lochside, there is a rear entrance to the farm without any houses whatsoever.

[VicHockeyFan]

How about all of us be more civil in this thread?

Please.

[Sparky]

How about all of us be more civil in this thread?

Please.

Was that meant for me?

[Bob Fugger]

Those are some great photos, Sparky! You're right, trucks were using Old East Road until Saanich put the load limit on the road. Then, they started coming in off of Tanner and making that turn where the makeshift barricade is.

Part of the problem is that the homeowner is in a dispute with the municipality. If you look at where the barricade is located, it is on the roadway. However, the homeowner is arguing that the public roadway is within his property line. At the public meeting, he stated that when he was friends with the farmer, he had no problem with them driving on that part of the road. Now that they are in a dispute, he suddenly has a problem with it. Except that it doesn't work that way, as the roadway is essentially an easement and his rock wall is non-conforming. I understand that the homeowner is being represented by a personal injury lawyer, whereas the farmer has retained BC's top municipal affairs lawyer. Good luck, buddy!

[Sparky]

Bob, is there a reason that the trucks could not use Lochside? The traffic light at Island View would also be helpful in order to return to town.

[Bob Fugger]

Bob, is there a reason that the trucks could not use Lochside? The traffic light at Island View would also be helpful in order to return to town.

There is no reason - in fact, Lochside is the best route and would solve the neighbours' problem. Except the bleeding hearts that think trail users ought to trump farming activities are up in arms.

[Bingo]

That section of the Lochside Drive once had locomotives and rail cars running through the farmland. Perhaps in twenty years that old right-of-way will have rail on it again servicing the penninsula.

[Bernard]

The issue of truck traffic and roads is one that specifically is one that needs to be addressed by the municipal governments. It would seem that neither Saanich nor Central Saanich considered the impact of trucks going to the farm. The land is zoned to be a farm, by extension this means the local government should provide appropriate access.

I can understand the concerns of the neighbours on the road with respect to the truck traffic.

Now, as to the issue of ALR, this law was a very large 'taking' by government from farmers when it was implemented. The quid pro quo is that there would be little or no interference in farming by local governments.

A big reason the ALR was created was because local governments were rezoning farm land as residential and then taxing the land at residential values. The Steeves in Stevestson lost much of their land because of this and it was a primary reason Harold Steeves became an MLA and pushed for the ALR.

[scaaty]

Like I said I have no problem with the facility that is being built, I've done my homework and I know that there is no cause to worry about smell. I have a solution to the whole traffic problem. If the farmer and the neighbours get the council to agree, Old East road continues, but is not currently used for traffic as it is part of Stanhope farm, was finished through to Ocean View it would alleviate all squabbles about traffic. Instead of spending money on lawyers etc why not help the farmer to construct a new road. Does this make sense? The trail remains intact and the traffic on Old East disappears.

[Logic]

Contacting Central Saanich was an exercise of futility, I was informed that the issue about Old East Road will be addressed in tonights (February 14, 2011) town meeting at Central Saanich Municipal Hall which starts at 7:00pm. For those interested in attending the address is; 1903 Mount Newton Cross Road.

As of this morning there are still dump trucks some with trailers and some without using Old East Road to reach Stanhope (but I have been told that the number has drastically decreased).

I would like to congratulate and thank Sparky for taking time out of his and Mrs Sparky's life to examine the problem first hand.

To Bob, I actually use Lochside trail often and when doing so am fully aware that this trail is only in existence due to the generosity of the farmer, seeing commercial trucks doing business with the farmer would not bother me in any way, after all it is his land. Could one not argue that a lot of the trail is on public roads in the first place?

[Sparky]

I would like to congratulate and thank Sparky for taking time out of his and Mrs Sparky's life to examine the problem first hand.

Thank you for the kind words Logic, we enjoy putting in the effort to help put a respective on a contentious issue. We also like getting out on Sundays to explore areas of this great city that one might not encounter on daily travels.

I hope there is a solution to your problem that works for everyone.

[Bob Fugger]

Contacting Central Saanich was an exercise of futility, I was informed that the issue about Old East Road will be addressed in tonights (February 14, 2011) town meeting at Central Saanich Municipal Hall which starts at 7:00pm. For those interested in attending the address is; 1903 Mount Newton Cross Road.

As of this morning there are still dump trucks some with trailers and some without using Old East Road to reach Stanhope (but I have been told that the number has drastically decreased).

I would like to congratulate and thank Sparky for taking time out of his and Mrs Sparky's life to examine the problem first hand.

To Bob, I actually use Lochside trail often and when doing so am fully aware that this trail is only in existence due to the generosity of the farmer, seeing commercial trucks doing business with the farmer would not bother me in any way, after all it is his land. Could one not argue that a lot of the trail is on public roads in the first place?

We had our wedding reception up at the hall at the Saanichton Fairgrounds, and getting the liquor licence was like pulling teeth!! So I feel your pain re: dealing with CS Municipal Hall.

From what I understand, the farmer is happy to use Island View to Lochside. Contrary to your reasonable (yet unfortunately, minority) views re: Lochside Drive, if you recall, much of Friday's meeting had people speaking out against using farm/commercial vehicles on Lochside Drive. I think that a women even went out and got 92 signatures for a petition against the farmer's use of Lochside Drive as an access to his property. ABSOLUTELY LAUGHABLE!





Given that reality, I wish that the neighbours would put themselves in the farmer's gumboots:

• Neighbours are pissed that the trucks use Old East to access the farm, so the farmer uses Tanner
• Neighbours are pissed that the trucks use Tanner to access the farm, so the farmer wants to use Lochside
• Neighbours are pissed that the trucks use Lochside to access the farm - well, that's all of the access!! Should the farmer just shut up shop? It's not like he can sell off to developers should he stop farming, as the land is in the ALR.

IMHO, the best scenario would be to extend Old East Road through to Gliddon or Island View, so that the trucks can access the farm from the north (something like what scaaty proposes). I am not entirely sure of the ins and outs, but I believe that since that is a public right-of-way - and NOT private (i.e., the farmer's) property - that Central Saanich would be on the hook to finishing the roadway, up to the property ingress/egress. Central Saanich isn't too hot on that idea, as the right-of-way is heavily treed and the cost to extend the roadway through there would not be inexpensive.

[Sparky]

I need to make a correction, Mrs Sparky has advised me that there are some houses on Lockside. I was focused on the other side of the road.

[Logic]

I received an interesting letter from Saanich Engineering department today. The letter was drafted by J.D Hemstock employee at the District of Saanich;

"Concerning heavy truck traffic on Old East Road. The District of Saanich has prepared signage to allow for local delivery only, eliminating any heavy trucks (over 5,500 kg) that are bound for areas beyond our Municipal border. This was in reaction to recent levels of heavy truck traffic that started to degrade the road structure (asphalt and shoulders) and underground utilities along this corridor.

In addition, Saanich Engineering and the Saanich Police feel there is a safety risk for any heavy truck turning left from Old East Road on to Highway 17 (Pat Bay Highway). We will be installing a turn restriction for all heavy vehicles (over 5,500 kg) no matter what their destination.

We are working with Central Saanich and are hopeful that suitable arrangements can be made to provide for truck traffic in support of local farms and businesses. In this type of situation it is imperative to work together with all governing bodies. In that light, we are awaiting the outcome of Central Saanich's public process to make Lochside Road available to heavy trucks before we continue installing signs. We anticipate traffic returning to previous acceptable levels should this proceed.

We appreciate your patience in this complex matter. Saanich will install all necessary sings as soon as possible."

The signs are up as of now.

I really can not add anything else to this letter. Hopefully all trucks within these restrictions will follow the now very clearly illegal use of Old East Road within Saanich borders.

On a side note, today the District of Saanich send out a road crew to repair some of the damage to the shoulders, this is their second attempt. This might be indicative that this road is in desperate need of attention which is something that all residents of Old East Road (Saanich and Central Saanich) have known for a very long time.

Again, good luck to all of us.

[Bob Fugger]

^^ I'm surprised that Saanich was able to move so quickly, as I believe that the installation and location of new traffic signs need to be approved by the Ministry of Transportation & Infrastructure.

Also, if the road has long been in disrepair, then it can be argued that the recent spate of truck traffic has served only to exacerbate what were already poor road conditions. Rather than patch it, it would be nice that upon resolution of the outstanding issues, that some of your tax dollars can be used to fix up that road.

[Rob Randall]

Saanich moves quickly to ease Stanhope congestion

Saanich’s engineering department has put up signage that they hope will alleviate the frustration residents of Old East Road have experienced since a composting facility began operation earlier this month.

more...

[Bob Fugger]

Saanich moves quickly to ease Stanhope congestion

more...

Rob - I am almost positive that your story is factually incorrect. No composting has taken place, yet. The increase in truck traffic is as a result of commercial vehicles hauling fill from the Uptown development to build the base for the concrete tipping floor. Please confirm this, before the neighbours get all up in arms over the misstatement that composting has already begun.

[Sparky]

^ Bob, in all fairness Rob stated "since a composting facility began operation earlier this month."

The beginning of an operation is to build it.

[Rob Randall]

I don't know what size trucks will be used once the facility opens. I suppose the market will determine that.

I would assume that the municipalities feel this will be an ongoing problem, otherwise they wouldn't bother if construction is almost completed.

[Bob Fugger]

^ Bob, in all fairness Rob stated "since a composting facility began operation earlier this month."

The beginning of an operation is to build it.

In the context of composting, "operation" has a very prescribed meaning in both provincial and regional organic matter recycling regulations.

With this in mind, operations have absolutely not begun at Stanhope Farms and cannot begin until the requisite recycling permits are in place. I realize that this may be just semantics to casual observers; however, for those that have been following the story closely, to state that the compost facility is in operation and has been operating for the better half of a month is dangerous fiction. I'm guessing though, that the farmer really doesn't consider Vibrant Victoria a credible media outlet, or it would likely take steps to ensure that the correct story is told.