9623 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

 

The BC Superintendent of Motor Vehicles has already said he would not rule on the issue.

Union President Ben Williams says if the BC government doesn't act, they will instruct all drivers to comply with BC Transit's order by pulling safely to the side of the road, making a stop announcement and then returning to their route.

 

 

http://www.cfax1070....ncial-intervent

[Mike K.]

But again, why is the union after BCT and not the human rights tribunal? If the complaint was valid, in some sense, and BCT decided to act then isn't the union creating a moat between itself and the tribunal, the organization that filed the complaint and BCT?

[VicHockeyFan]

But again, why is the union after BCT and not the human rights tribunal? If the complaint was valid, in some sense, and BCT decided to act then isn't the union creating a moat between itself and the tribunal, the organization that filed the complaint and BCT?

 

I'll say it again, let's see this HRT ruling.  Come on, a blind person can not tell the difference between homogenized and 2% milk at the store, do we need to install a device on them to make one recognizable over the other?

 

And if this is the case, that blind people have been winning rulings all across the country, is every transit system moving this way?

 

EDIT:  Here is a 2007 ruling in Ontario:  http://www.thestar.c...re_for_ttc.html

[Mike K.]

Properly equipped buses announce the stops audibly and display the stop information digitally. This is old technology that has been deployed all over the place.

But yeah, was there a ruling or was there simply a complaint? I imagine you can address the complaint without having the tribunal rule for or against you. Perhaps the union should offer to finance the legal costs of challenging the complaint if they feel so strongly about the implications of BCT's rule change.

[Holden West]

Maybe this is all a clever ploy to light a fire under BCT's ass and get that long-awaited automation happening. Maybe I can convince the tribunal I have a clinical phobia called fear of unknown waiting and I demand that bus drivers get out of their bus and write the arrival time of the next bus on a chalkboard mounted on the bus stop. Then BCT would realize implementing the electronic status updates would be more effective.

[Mike K.]

It could be. I mean not to have real time info even at the busiest stops is behind the times for sure.

[James Bay walker]

Why are they not offering headsets to their drivers?  I mean, that seems to be the main basis for objection, having to take one hand off the controls to handle a mike for announcing stops.  And headsets (bought in bulk), surely ought not cost that much more than hand held mikes, I'd of thought maybe, $10-$20 more per bus, if that?

 

jbw

[HB]

The good headsets are about $80 each and the objection is that the driver will be required to call out AND stop at each and every stop even if the bell cord is not pulle

 

Deaf people will wonder what is going on

[Mike K.]

The union is saying drivers will stop in order to ensure safe operation of the bus while speaking through the mic, but BCT isn't requiring them to do so.

The union of course is throwing some fear mongering into the mix.

[Jason-L]

Wouldn't they be required to pull over, shut off the engine, make the announcement and then restart and resume?  What with it being illegal to operate an electronic device in a vehicle in motion and all.

[James Bay walker]

Wouldn't they be required to pull over, shut off the engine, make the announcement and then restart and resume?  What with it being illegal to operate an electronic device in a vehicle in motion and all.

I believe this refers to an 'interactive' device (a microphone does not normally 'talk back' to you, while cellphone & texting involves back & forth communication).  Which may be why tour operators are not cited so far as I know (especially when using a hands free mike).

 

editted to add:  I suppose the underlying theory is:  it takes little brainpower to talk (so, talking by itself is not seen as diverting a driver's attention from the road), but serious brainpower is needed to pay attention  to responses.

 

jbw

Edited by James Bay walker, 16 April 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[eseedhouse]

But again, why is the union after BCT and not the human rights tribunal?

Because BCT is the other signatory to the collective agreement, and that collective agreement contains a grievance procedure and a provision for arbitration.  And because BCT management are the ones who gave the direct order and the Union thinks the order violates the collective agreement.

Edited by eseedhouse, 16 April 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[ryno8097]

From the opinion of a transit operator...

 

If I have to call out every single stop on every single trip for the visually impaired, then let's consider this:

What language should I announce each and every stop in?  We ave two official languages in Canada. What about deaf people? Am I required to write out each and every stop on a whiteboard and hold it up so everyone can see? Who am I to judge which passenger needs the bus lowered, or the ramp deployed? I should lower the bus for every passenger and deploy the ramp for all walkers, strollers, wheelchairs, and shopping carts. Who am I to judge which passengers require me to wait until he or she is seated? I should wait until all are comfortably seated.  If this is a human rights issue, why are we not implementing all of these steps as well?  Bottom line is... whatever happened to "self-responsibility"?  The current system works just fine - if you have a request, ask and we will be glad to help. What a concept!

 

Is it really necessary to have every stop announced on Sooke Road at 5:30 in the morning? Because that is what will happen if this policy is fully implemented.

 

F.Y.I. This policy is taking affect in Victoria only. BC Transit operates all systems in the province outside Greater Vancouver, but does not have this new policy being implemented.  Guess visually-impaired people in Prince George, Penticton, Kitimat, and the rest of the province don't count.

[vicernie]

two things I love about the Victoria Transit system. 100% of the busses are accessible but if I'm tucked in backwards on my scooter, I'm nervous about finding my stop even if I have told the driver where I'm going. they usually remember. an automated system like Vancouver would be best. and second, that 80% of the people disembarking the bus thank the driver. only in Victoria.

[HB]

Wouldn't they be required to pull over, shut off the engine, make the announcement and then restart and resume?  What with it being illegal to operate an electronic device in a vehicle in motion and all.

A handheld microphone is not an electronic device and they are not included from the ban they are part of a PA system.

[lanforod]

From the opinion of a transit operator...

 

If I have to call out every single stop on every single trip for the visually impaired, then let's consider this:

What language should I announce each and every stop in?  We ave two official languages in Canada. What about deaf people? Am I required to write out each and every stop on a whiteboard and hold it up so everyone can see? Who am I to judge which passenger needs the bus lowered, or the ramp deployed? I should lower the bus for every passenger and deploy the ramp for all walkers, strollers, wheelchairs, and shopping carts. Who am I to judge which passengers require me to wait until he or she is seated? I should wait until all are comfortably seated.  If this is a human rights issue, why are we not implementing all of these steps as well?  Bottom line is... whatever happened to "self-responsibility"?  The current system works just fine - if you have a request, ask and we will be glad to help. What a concept!

 

Is it really necessary to have every stop announced on Sooke Road at 5:30 in the morning? Because that is what will happen if this policy is fully implemented.

 

F.Y.I. This policy is taking affect in Victoria only. BC Transit operates all systems in the province outside Greater Vancouver, but does not have this new policy being implemented.  Guess visually-impaired people in Prince George, Penticton, Kitimat, and the rest of the province don't count.

 

Yes. He has a point.  I actually fall into one of the groups who would benefit from a display system like used in Vancouver as I have a profound hearing loss, but if it isn't there, I can always just ask the driver. All edge cases can never be satisfied anyways. The system works for most people. Improvements can be made to make it more accessible, and LED signs with stop announcements if the cord is pulled or a major stop would be much better than a driver announcement.

[James Bay walker]

From the opinion of a transit operator...

 

..... Who am I to judge which passenger needs the bus lowered, or the ramp deployed? I should lower the bus for every passenger and deploy the ramp for all walkers, strollers, wheelchairs, and shopping carts. Who am I to judge which passengers require me to wait until he or she is seated? I should wait until all are comfortably seated.  If this is a human rights issue, why are we not implementing all of these steps as well?  Bottom line is... whatever happened to "self-responsibility"?  The current system works just fine - if you have a request, ask and we will be glad to help.

 

Well, I for one would like my money's worth, so would appreciate the ramp being lowered for me (a modest fanfare accompanying my arrival would not be amiss).  But that's just me, and I anticipate most others are content to just be herded aboard without fuss or bother.

 

Waiting until newly embarked passengers are seated before careening down our roads and highways?  Surely that's a basic safety issue and the driver should wait until all who can sit, have sat.

 

"ask"?  It is intimidating and demeaning (imo) to be placed in the position of having to ask for what ought to be either or both a common sense safety step and/or a human right. 

 

jbw

[aastra]

 

In the nearly 30+ years of riding buses in Victoria drivers have always, when asked, called out a particular stop for anyone who asks when boarding.

 

Same thing in Vancouver. Also, some drivers do call out all stops on the neighbourhood routes. I'm really not getting what this whole thing is about.

[Benezet]

A handheld microphone is not an electronic device and they are not included from the ban they are part of a PA system.

 

While they aren't banned, they must nonetheless be used only if and when it's safe to do so, just like anything in your car.

[CriticalMass]

Instead of BCT being a proactive company instead of the reactive one they are and dealing with this years ago when this issue first arose. It looks like they have chosen a path of failure at the drivers and passengers expense hoping to say we tried so please give us the funding to install the automated system.

Curious why as per the earlier post this is only happening in Victoria and not province wide? Could this be linked to current contract negotiations?

I have also noticed in the older style buses the microphone is not located in the same position as shown on the news clip. They are located above and behind the driver. Nice spin job for the media I guess.

The ensuing chaos we can expect if drivers choose to stop to announce the next stop will make for some interesting challenges in keeping to the schedules.