746 replies to this topic

[Holden West]

I do not look at the TC (web or paper) very much at all these days, but I can tell you that following VV will keep you much more in tuned with what's going on in Victoria than the TC ever will.

A post here on VV saying "there's a crash on the Malahat" or "Sauce restaurant closed, there's a note on the door" is no substitute for real journalism that includes research and interviews.

[VicHockeyFan]

A post here on VV saying "there's a crash on the Malahat" or "Sauce restaurant closed, there's a note on the door" is no substitute for real journalism that includes research and interviews.

Then why does the TC even bother with this article (and I only reprint it here in its entirety to prove a point):

A 25-year-old Saanich woman received minor injuries after her vehicle crashed through the front window of a hair salon on Tuesday.

The incident occurred about 1:15 p.m. at Saanich Centre, at Quadra Street and McKenzie Avenue.

The driver told Saanich police she was fatigued and mistook the gas pedal for the brake.

No one inside the salon was injured.

The crash resulted in $10,000 damage to the plaza and $1,000 to the SUV.

— Times Colonist

NO PHOTO

http://www.timescolo...window-1.107542

...when by the time they printed this, we had both interior and exterior photos of the crash, gleaned from two very different social media sources, that already told the better story?

[VicHockeyFan]

And let me pick apart this article.

A 25-year-old Saanich woman received minor injuries after her vehicle crashed through the front window of a hair salon on Tuesday.

OK, good, we did not know from SM about the gender, age or injuries, if any. But we did know the name of the salon, not given here. And it was clear from our photos what happened.

The incident occurred about 1:15 p.m. at Saanich Centre, at Quadra Street and McKenzie Avenue.

We knew where, and the exact time wasn't that important.

The driver told Saanich police she was fatigued and mistook the gas pedal for the brake.

No one inside the salon was injured.

Good info, phone quotes from the police.

The crash resulted in $10,000 damage to the plaza and $1,000 to the SUV.

We can see that, but guess it's a bit off based on the photos.

[Bingo]

A post here on VV saying "there's a crash on the Malahat" or "Sauce restaurant closed, there's a note on the door" is no substitute for real journalism that includes research and interviews.

I think you might get more "real journalism" on VV in a condensed version, with photos appearing as it happens. People don't need the interviews so much as they are usually in too much of a hurry to move on to the next story, text or tweet. Besides, print media seems to be reluctant to do any of the "real" investigative research.

[Holden West]

You can't really call the random observations posted here "journalism". The best instance lately was the investigation of the Pandora water main geyser but unlike a real news source there was no satisfying follow-up or conclusion to the story. Just saying "I saw something hit something" is not journalism but I suppose if one is incurious, has a short attention span or is otherwise impaired, this might not matter.

[Benezet]

... Just saying "I saw something hit something" is not journalism but I suppose if one is incurious, has a short attention span or is otherwise impaired, this might not matter.

Thanks, I have a new favourite word!

[mysage]

You can't really call the random observations posted here "journalism". The best instance lately was the investigation of the Pandora water main geyser but unlike a real news source there was no satisfying follow-up or conclusion to the story. Just saying "I saw something hit something" is not journalism but I suppose if one is incurious, has a short attention span or is otherwise impaired, this might not matter.

While I maintain that the current print media business model is flawed and eventually doomed to failure I also take great issue with those that pretend to be experts, or pretend to have inside information, or constantly take up space pushing private agendas on forums such as VV. This is impossible to monitor of course as one cannot hold anonymous contributors on forums such as VV to account in any way (such as an accredited journalist might be held to account by their employer or professional organization) and that is the weakness of believing anything you read without in depth investigations on your own. Thus the weakness of free information.

VV provides a great instant information forum but the content is only as good and honest as the people who contribute it.

[LJ]

I like to have an actual paper to read in the morning over coffee. I think the papers job is to provide more in depth coverage and follow up of stories than social media or even radio or TV does.

Having said that I am afraid the TC fails to measure up. Their news is old and just a rehash of what you already know. And, I can't seem to get reliable home delivery.
For 30 years in Vancouver I could count on one hand the number of times I didn't get a paper delivered. Here I can count that many times in a month sometimes.

What other papers do VV'ers read that are available for home delivery and provide better content than TC does? Black Press doesn't do deliveries in my area for local content which of the other national papers provide any at all?

[gumgum]

You can't really call the random observations posted here "journalism". The best instance lately was the investigation of the Pandora water main geyser but unlike a real news source there was no satisfying follow-up or conclusion to the story. Just saying "I saw something hit something" is not journalism but I suppose if one is incurious, has a short attention span or is otherwise impaired, this might not matter.

I agree with you in a sense , but you can't call a paper too beholden to their sponsors real journalism either. I don't know how many major stories the TC has ignored or PRed for the sake of potential revenue in the future. I realize this is the case for most traditional media, but the TC does it in such an overt way, it makes me cringe. Monday's no better.

[gumgum]

In defense of the TC, as a VV member I rely on instant info here, but often I rely on the TC or other print media to elaborate. If you are not a career journalist, you are not privy to as much information. Simple as that.

[VicHockeyFan]

In defense of the TC, as a VV member I rely on instant info here, but often I rely on the TC or other print media to elaborate. If you are not a career journalist, you are not privy to as much information. Simple as that.

Yes, it's unlikely we can call the police station and ask the status of a car crash.

[weirdie]

I got paywalled on TC mobile for the first time today.

Press "stop" before the page fully loads.

[VicHockeyFan]

Press "stop" before the page fully loads.

Oh ya, that works just as well on mobile as on desktop, I'm just pointing out that before this week, or very recently, the TC did not paywall mobile devices.

[sebberry]

The TC site is being wonky

504 Gateway Time-out
The server didn't respond in time.

503 Service Unavailable
No server is available to handle this request.

[jonny]

A post here on VV saying "there's a crash on the Malahat" or "Sauce restaurant closed, there's a note on the door" is no substitute for real journalism that includes research and interviews.

I don't see much journalism in the TC that I value. Most of the headlines are copied and pasted news releases from government entities. The one right now from UVic is an example.

My point is, VV covers many more topics than the TC does. One needs to look no further than ongoing or upcoming construction projects. Does the TC even cover half of the projects that we have threads for? Does the TC cover half of the restaurant closings and openings we hear about through VV? I don't think so.

Anyway, both have their place. There are traditional print publications that I read daily. The TC is not one of them.

[VicHockeyFan]

How's this for reporting, TC today:

Firefighters in East Sooke are battling a blaze in a residential cul-de-sac at Hensbro Place and Llanilar Road.

Emergency crews on the CREST radio scanner said the fire was “fully involved. One said, “There’s a burning boat and the house is just gone.”

Times Colonist reporters and photographers will have more on this story from the scene as it develops.

http://www.timescolo...-blaze-1.110179

That's the whole story.

[Sparky]

Is it just me or is the headline of this article a little out of wack?

http://www.timescolo...o-days-1.115285

[pherthyl]

I think the news business might actually see a bit of a revival. Yes the industry is dying right now because "news is free online" but as more and more sites go to paywalls, good news will no longer be free online. And why should we expect it to be? Just because there were some years of bad business models where they thought advertising would pay the bills doesn't mean that will continue forever.
I wouldn't pay for the TC, but I could see myself eventually subscribing to a couple online newspapers once the free sources dry up. And no, VV is no replacement for a real newspaper.

[HB]

Is it just me or is the headline of this article a little out of wack?

http://www.timescolo...o-days-1.115285

Think he missed what you were talking about.
I see it ...guess they dont have editors any longer

[sebberry]

Well they can't catch all the mistakes