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Local Bylaw Enforcement


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#21 sebberry

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:30 PM

In Langford there is a bylaw that states that you have to provide offstreet parking for any suite you have. Sounds good, but there is no requirement for the renter to use it.


I'm trying to figure out their bylaw that requires two unenclosed parking spaces for houses. I was on the verge of shopping for a house at Kettle Creek and enquired about enclosing the car port. Nope, that would take away an unenclosed parking spot. Can't have that.



How about a thread for Strata bylaw enforcement? One foot out of line and they clamp down on you like the jaws of a hungry alligator ;)

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#22 Holden West

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:45 PM

Bullcrap. How did a single mom get into possession of a SFD and if she did, get yourself into a better position by selling it


Huh? I was referring to poor people that in a city with a rising cost of living, cheap illegal basement suites are essential. And that can't happen without bylaw officials turning a blind eye. Or at least not aggressively enforcing the bylaw.

This is related to the earlier tow-away zone parking problem. One person's complaint about lane-blocking is another person's complaint about enforcement nazis writing tickets with five minutes to go. The municipality is in a bind.
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#23 patrick venton

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

na , the municipality is not in a bind. Employees have not be interviewed properly for good understanding of public relations.... Bad managers are the root of uniformed street wrong doing. The part about the poorer and basement suites holds water....

#24 Holden West

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:44 AM

na , the municipality is not in a bind. Employees have not be interviewed properly for good understanding of public relations.... Bad managers are the root of uniformed street wrong doing.


I don't understand this either. Employee training and management competence is not the issue here, it's about bylaw officers struggling to find a balance (the ideal outcome I suppose is when everyone is equally pissed off). Whether it's on-street parking, dog bylaws, or illegal suites, City Hall has to perform a delicate balancing act.
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#25 patrick venton

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:37 PM

competency of managers and competency of street personal, rise above and beyond training, and qualification. There is a definite lack of competency.

#26 LJ

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:29 PM

I don't understand this either. Employee training and management competence is not the issue here, it's about bylaw officers struggling to find a balance (the ideal outcome I suppose is when everyone is equally pissed off). Whether it's on-street parking, dog bylaws, or illegal suites, City Hall has to perform a delicate balancing act.


Why do they have to find a balance? If the city creates a bylaw they obviously have a problem or feel their citizenry has a problem with something. It should be enforced everywhere. If they don't feel it is a big enough problem - don't create the bylaw. If they know of a safety problem with an illegal suite and don't intervene and something happens, the city can suffer the consequences.
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#27 Mike K.

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

Patrick, let's focus on the issues and not make things personal :)

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#28 rjag

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:01 AM

Heres a good one, resident only parking by-law for Oak Bay; read the by-law first;

It shall be lawful for any person being a guest in a dwelling as aforesaid or engaged in transacting business with or performing work for or rendering services to any person residing in or being a guest as aforesaid, to park any vehicle and permit same to remain parked on the portion of such street described in Section 19(2)(a), provided, however,
(a)
that such person is actually present at the dwelling as a guest or is actually engaged in transacting business or performing work for or rendering a service to a person residing at the dwelling at the time the vehicle is parked; and
(b)
that such person has placed a note upon the dash of said vehicle which identifies the dwelling in which the person is either a guest or providing services with such note to be displayed in such a manner as to allow the same to be readily observed and read by persons outside the vehicle on which it is displayed


So we live up near UVic/Camosun and September parking enforcement is pretty heavy on residential streets to ensure no overflow from the campuses.

Just so you know we do not have a parking issue on our street but the signs are there.

My Daughter's friend comes over 3 mornings a week and has breakfast with her, she places the notice on her dash that she's visiting our address and then they go to the gym or take the dog for a walk, come home do some studying together, have lunch and then she leaves and takes her car.

So last week she gets a parking ticket and printed on the ticket is an acknowledgement that there is a note on the dash but no-one is home so she gets a ticket.

Upon hearing of this I took it upon myself to contact OB and find out whats going on. They put me in touch with the commissionaire and he says that there was no-one home and the by-law clearly states that the guest must be present.

I indicated that our guest went for a walk with my daughter and dog and he replied that 'therefore the guest was not present at your house so was therefore in contravention of the by-law"

Needless to say I went ballistic and told him that the website clearly indicates that guests should leave a note on the dash and nothing more and that was what we complied with. I suggested he was overstepping his authority and that we do not have to report our movements and personal activities to the Municipality and in fact this is most likely a contravention of our Charter Rights "Reasonable expectation of privacy".

He waived the ticket but 'warned' me that he would continue to write tickets to this car if it was on the street and no-one was home and I could keep calling and he would waive them BUT if she ever got pulled over by the police and they saw a trend of all those tickets that it may not go over so well for her.....

At this point I told him to take a long walk off a short French pier and hung up.

So folks, be warned, if you ever visit someone in Oak Bay and you do not leave a note on the dash and stay on the property a very small-minded busybody commissionaire may be waiting to pounce!!!

#29 Mike K.

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:13 AM

He waived the ticket but 'warned' me that he would continue to write tickets to this car if it was on the street and no-one was home and I could keep calling and he would waive them BUT if she ever got pulled over by the police and they saw a trend of all those tickets that it may not go over so well for her.....


Waived parking tickets can now land you in hot water with the police?

I mean, is this just an Oak Bay thing and relevant to being pulled over by the Oak Bay PD, or do police across the region receive a log of parking tickets issued by a municipality? And if so, are municipalities even allowed to reveal parking infractions to police?

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#30 sebberry

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:42 AM

Do the signs say a note is required and that you must remain at the house you're visiting?

That's getting pretty strict. I guess Fido isn't getting any more walks.



"that such person is actually present at the dwelling as a guest or is actually engaged in transacting business or performing work for or rendering a service to a person residing at the dwelling at the time the vehicle is parked; and"


Present at the dwelling OR rendering a service to a person residing at the dwelling.

Doesn't say that the service must be taking place AT the dwelling, just that the service needs to be provided to a person who resides there.


Daughter and friend draw up a contract. Friend agrees that the services she's providing are for studying/homework assistance, dog walking and personal training in the sum of $1 per month.

There. You have a written contract that your daughter's friend, er.. dog walker, personal trainer and educational coach is providing services to a person who resides at the house.

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#31 sebberry

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

I've removed the posts (including my own) that were taking this thread off topic. Please keep close to the topic of bylaws and enforcement.

Thank you.

#32 Bob Fugger

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

I suggested he was overstepping his authority and that we do not have to report our movements and personal activities to the Municipality and in fact this is most likely a contravention of our Charter Rights "Reasonable expectation of privacy".


This is the first thing that popped into mind. The bylaw is likley illegal not even because of a Charter Violation, but because it appears to contravene FOIPPA. Although it is a bit of a stretch, s.30 appears to apply:

30 A public body must protect personal information in its custody or under its control by making reasonable security arrangements against such risks as unauthorized access, collection, use, disclosure or disposal.

It places upon the public body the responsibility to protect personal information. From a purely technically perspective, since a requirement of the Oak Bay bylaw is the disclosure of personal information, then a reasonable person reading both s.30 and the bylaw can infer that Oak Bay has a duty to protect the information. Requiring visitors to identify themselves and the house they are attending by placing a note on a windshield risks unauthorized access, collection, use, disclosure and/or disposal.

EDIT: Comment removed by moderator.

#33 rjag

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

Good comments, thanks,
I have sent a letter to Mayor and Council expressing my concern over what happened and in particular the requirement for guests to remain on the property, I figure its another of these rules that they can whip out to attempt to discriminate between someone visiting and someone simply being granted permission to park in front of ones home. Either way we have a reasonable expectation of privacy and do not have to explain the interactions between us and our guests....

What if it was my mistress parked outside and we didn't answer the door because we were "In flagrante delicto"?

#34 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:10 AM

What if it was my mistress parked outside and we didn't answer the door because we were "In flagrante delicto"?


I thought your mistress has her own car service.


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#35 aastra

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:55 AM

What if it was my mistress parked outside and we didn't answer the door because we were "In flagrante delicto"?


What if you just didn't feel like answering the door? What if you were on the toilet or having a shower or listening to music or recording a musical performance or cooking something or reading something or doing yoga? You could have been doing anything or nothing at the time. The notion that a knock on a door is somehow a conclusive means re: determining whether or not a house is occupied is beyond absurd.

#36 rjag

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:55 PM

What if you just didn't feel like answering the door? What if you were on the toilet or having a shower or listening to music or recording a musical performance or cooking something or reading something or doing yoga? You could have been doing anything or nothing at the time. The notion that a knock on a door is somehow a conclusive means re: determining whether or not a house is occupied is beyond absurd.


Exactly, it shouldn't matter whether the guest is in your home or even on the property, you could be carpooling for brunch or meeting up to walk.....

Looking forward to hearing what OB's reply to my letter will be....

#37 kenjh

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

so far enforcement is selective , and parking and living quarters are the biggest problem ??

#38 Bob Fugger

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:50 PM

so far enforcement is selective


Yes - to draw a comparison, many Commissionaires and bylaw officers act on a whim, like...oh, I dunno, Internet forum moderators. If they don't like you, you're more likely to be under scrutiny than others. Of course, some just ask for it.

It's a valid comparison and I dare you to moderate it as you did my comment above.

#39 Holden West

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:35 PM

Aren't virtually all these scenarios complaint based? In other words, nosy neighbour spots you parking your car and heading out to walk your friend's dog and calls up the authorities. And that rule is only in place to fill a loophole preventing students from parking their car all day outside an accommodating acquaintance's house.

Hey, I hate these stupid residential parking rules but I wish they were solved by two hour parking limits instead of seeing streets I pay taxes for being used exclusively by residents who have nowhere else to park their cars because there's no longer room in their garages and driveways.
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#40 kenjh

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:03 PM

guess we have wandered a bit ..as to enforcement...here in sannich , I don't understand why as a home owner I have never been given a list of what is not allowed without having to hunt through several departments ,,,I drive a commercial truck ..and wanted to know what the rules were ...10 years ago ..I asked for the rules..and was told my truck a one ton van did not break any rules ...now .I am told the limit is 4200 klios ..gvw ..a few months ago ..never heard of any changes ..I have been told there are plants I can't have in my yard only after asking about invasive weeds ..who the hell plant's weeds ???some rules seem to be at a whim . and just to frustrat or anger homeowners ..because i can see the same rules broken from my driveway that are not enforced ...and I will not lower myself to harrass someone because I am being harrased ....

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