96 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

At long last, a "clear as mud" explanation into CoV bylaw enforcement courtesy of Councillor Charlayne Thorton-Joe

 

Charlayne Thornton-Joe: Thank you to everyone who brought this [Cody the dog's story] to my attention. I understand that the owner was not ticketed but given a reminder/warning.

During my years on Council, I have come to realize that the public would like us to enforce rules only if they are the ones that they don't like.....non cyclists want us to enforce non helmet use or riding on sidewalks, some want us to enforce panhandling while others don't, some want those that use cell phones or text while driving penalized however the two to three that I see a day disobeying, probably don't want it enforced. Many run away when they see animal control knowing that they are going against leash bylaws and many still choose to have their dog in the car on a hot day...even though there are bylaws against that too.

We let enforcement follow up on the laws and bylaws that exist and try not to interfere. Sure, this seems like a horrible thing for bylaw to give a reminder/warning......but did you know that this bylaw exists so that folks that are in wheelchairs, visually impaired, or have deep fears of dogs don't have a negative interaction. I know the shop, I have seen this lovely dog. I know he is a friendly dog. But others who pass by may not know this. So I know it may seem unfair and wrong for staff to enforce while there are others things that you would like us to be choosing to enforce more, however that is not the way it works. That is why when I get a parking ticket, instead of getting mad that there are other things to enforce, I recognize that the bylaw exists for a reason and that I did in fact contravene it. I then go and pay my fine. I am sorry if this response has infuriated people even more.

[Rob Randall]

^That's a fair enough response. Cody is probably one of the most popular dogs in Downtown but I have seen him sprawled on the sidewalk blocking the path. A few years ago I witnessed bylaw enforcement talking to a couple of antique store owners including Charmaine about dogs on the sidewalk.

[Nparker]

^That's a fair enough response. Cody is probably one of the most popular dogs in Downtown but I have seen him sprawled on the sidewalk blocking the path...

It still doesn't explain why bylaws are not being enforced in and around SIC.

[lanforod]

I don't have a problem with the bylaw being enforced. I think Charmaine should have gotten a ticket, in fact, if she has been warned before.

Just enforce ALL bylaws. No exceptions. No turning a blind eye. Any blatant bylaw infraction gets the fine/warning/kick in the pants, or whatever. Gray areas, bylaw officers should use best judgement.

 

If there are bylaws that shouldn't be enforced, then those bylaws need to be changed or repealed.

[Nparker]

...Just enforce ALL bylaws. No exceptions. No turning a blind eye. Any blatant bylaw infraction gets the fine/warning/kick in the pants, or whatever...

So when will this start to happen, because it sure as hell is not the norm in Victoria at present.

[sebberry]

but did you know that this bylaw exists so that folks that are in wheelchairs, visually impaired, or have deep fears of dogs don't have a negative interaction. I know the shop, I have seen this lovely dog. I know he is a friendly dog. But others who pass by may not know this.

 

So because someone might have a fear of old Golden Retrievers sleeping on the sidewalk, we need to remove Golden Retrievers from the sidewalk in the event someone gets scared?  What about all the other people who like the dog and go into the store because of it? 

 

As for those in wheelchairs and the visually impaired - there's lots of furniture in front of the store...

[sebberry]

Looks pretty unobtrusive to me... 

 

[GabriolaGirl]

Looks pretty unobtrusive to me... 

 

 

Unobtrusive??   I don't know... we usually have to step over him to get in the store.

[aastra]

 

Just enforce ALL bylaws. No exceptions. No turning a blind eye.

 

One class of people? Everyone equal? No special rights and privileges? Can somebody please ban this radical?

[Benezet]

I imagine this has been mentioned here already, but the City expressly states that bylaw enforcement is largely complaint-driven.

http://www.victoria....nforcement.html

Compliants are taken in writing, or via this handy on-line form.

http://www.victoria....on/default.aspx

[Nparker]

I imagine this has been mentioned here already, but the City expressly states that bylaw enforcement is largely complaint-driven....

Unless of course those complaints involve a tent city. These complaints are ignored for ideological and political reasons.

[aastra]

 

Unless of course those complaints involve a tent city.

 

Or maybe unless the situation is so obvious and so flagrant that nobody should even need to file a formal complaint?

 

Godzilla is lying on the sidewalk just down the way, but a formal complaint was filed against the dog, so that's why they came after the dog.

[Bernard]

Unless of course those complaints involve a tent city. These complaints are ignored for ideological and political reasons.

Not true, find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint.    Problem is what bylaw are they breaking?   General laws are something different and that is up to the police to enforce 

[sebberry]

Unobtrusive??   I don't know... we usually have to step over him to get in the store.

 

Still more welcoming than some of the human store greeters I've seen... 

[Nparker]

Not true, find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint.    Problem is what bylaw are they breaking? ...

The tent city denizens certainly block the sidewalk around SIC every bit as much as Cody did outside of Charmaine's. There must be some sort of bylaw against crapping on private property and dropping used needles everywhere. Have a look at this document and tell me if at least one of the bylaws isn't broken on a regular basis at/around SIC. http://www.victoria....ylaw-10-071.pdf

[Nparker]

...find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint.    Problem is what bylaw are they breaking? ...

I am pretty sure the SIC-ies are violating THIS bylaw:

Edited by Nparker, 18 May 2016 - 06:18 AM.

[Nparker]

...find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint.  Problem is what bylaw are they breaking? ...

Undoubtedly tent city commits many violations of the Fire Prevention bylaw (NO. 14-100) - and before someone says "but this is provincial property", the CoV bylaw explicitly states the Fire Chief is authorized to enter ANY property within the city. Last I checked, SIC was sadly well inside Victoria.

[Nparker]

...find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint. Problem is what bylaw are they breaking?  

Noise Bylaw (NO. 03-12). SIC is on the border of the Quiet & Intermediate noise districts. 

Permissable noise levels are as follows:

5 In a Quiet District a person must not make, cause or permit to be made or caused, any sound or noise that, when measured with an approved sound meter over a representative time period, has an equivalent sound level, or Leq, which

(a) during the daytime exceeds
      (i)   55 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Quiet District;
      (ii)  55 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Intermediate District;
      (iii) 55 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Harbour Intermediate District;
      (iv) 60 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Activity District, or
(b) during the nighttime exceeds
      (i)   45 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Quiet District;
      (ii)  50 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Intermediate District;
      (iii) 50 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Harbour Intermediate District;
      (iv) 60 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Activity District. Intermediate District permitted noise levels

6 In an Intermediate District a person must not make, cause or permit to be made or caused, any sound or noise that, when measured with an approved sound meter over a representative time period, has an equivalent sound level, or Leq, which
(a) during the daytime exceeds
      (i)   60 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Quiet District;
      (ii)  60 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Intermediate District;
      (iii) 60 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Harbour Intermediate District;
      (iv) 65 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Activity District, or
(b) during the nighttime exceeds:
     (i)   50 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Quiet District;
     (ii)  55 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Intermediate District;
     (iii) 55 dBA when received at a point of reception in a Harbour Intermediate District;
     (iv) 65 dBA when received at a point of reception in an Activity District
 

In addition the Noise Bylaw states:

Noise disturbing neighbourhood

11 (1) Subject to the other provisions of this Bylaw,
          (a) a person must not make or cause a noise or sound in a street, park, plaza or similar public place which disturbs or tends to disturb the quiet, peace rest, enjoyment, comfort or convenience of persons in the neighbourhood or vicinity;

Here's where the city might be able to make some of their $27,000/week SIC maintenance expenses back:

Offences and penalties

23 (1) A person commits an offence and is subject to the penalties imposed by this Bylaw, the Ticket Bylaw and the Offence Act if that person:
      (a) contravenes a provision of this Bylaw;
      (b) consents to, allows, or permits an act or thing to be done contrary to this Bylaw; or
      © neglects or refrains from doing anything required by a provision of this Bylaw.
(2) The minimum penalty for a contravention of a provision of this Bylaw is a fine of $200.
(3) Each day that a contravention of a provision of this Bylaw occurs or continues shall constitute a separate offence

I ascertain there have been a minimum of 2 violations/week under this bylaw since SIC was established. Given that this nightmare has now been ongoing for 32 weeks, I estimate the SIC-ies owe the city close to $13,000 in noise fines alone.

[Nparker]

...find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint. Problem is what bylaw are they breaking?...

Portable Sign Bylaw (No. 13-083). This one might be a bit of a stretch, but something tells me not all of the SIC signs stay entirely within the confines of the provincial property at all times. 

Portable Signs

102A (1) In this section:...
           (2) A person must not place, construct, erect or cause or permit to be placed, constructed or erected a portable sign that encroaches on, obstructs, or otherwise occupies any public place or sidewalk without first obtaining a portable sign permit.
(9) A portable sign must be placed:
     (ii) as close to the curb as practical but no closer than 0.3 meters from the curb;
           (e) in such a way that it does not:
                    (i) impede pedestrian or vehicular traffic;
                    (ii) leave less than 2 meters of sidewalk width clear for pedestrians and other users of the sidewalk;
                    (iv) interfere with the use of any City infrastructure, including street furniture and bus stops; or
                     (v) cause any damage to City property 
           (g) have anything attached to it, including but not limited to balloons, pamphlets, pennants or flags

Enforcing this bylaw at SIC is certainly every bit as important as ensuring that Cody the Dog doesn't create irreperable public harm while lying in front of Charmaine's.

[Nparker]

...find some specific bylaw they are violating and supply them with a complaint.  Problem is what bylaw are they breaking?..

Solid Waste Bylaw (NO. 12-086). Over the course of the past 7 months I am certain at least some "residential" garbage generated at SIC has ended up in public garbage receptacles, most likely in Pioneer Square.

Public Garbage Receptacles

26 No person shall deposit solid waste from a residential property or a business into a City garbage receptacle located in a public areas.

27 (1) A person commits an offence and is subject to the penalties imposed by this Bylaw, the Ticket Bylaw and the Offence Act if that person:
           (a) contravenes a provision of this Bylaw;
           (b) consents to, allows, or permits an act or thing to be done contrary to this Bylaw; or
           © neglects or refrains from doing anything required by a provision of this Bylaw.
      (2) Each day that a contravention of a provision of this Bylaw occurs or continues shall constitute a separate offence.

 

So there you have it. At least 5 separate City of Victoria bylaws are likely regularly being violated at SIC. How many tickets or even warnings do you think have been issued to the residents?