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701 Belleville Street
Uses: rental, commercial
Address: 701 Belleville Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 15
701 Belleville is a proposal for a 15-storey, 173-unit mixed-use rental, condo and ground floor commercial pro... (view full profile)
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[James Bay] Tapestry / 701 Belleville Street | Seniors condos and rentals; commercial | 15- & 4-storeys | Approved


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#41 sebberry

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 06:46 PM

A prime location like this and the proposal is to put a senior's home styled like an Art Deco shelving unit on it. 

 

Hmmm.


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#42 2F2R

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 07:32 AM

http://www.timescolo...ature-1.1971056



#43 Nparker

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:02 AM

"Concert hopes to harmonize its project with surrounding heritage buildings and the James Bay neighbourhood, according to the developer’s proposal....Victoria Coun. Margaret Lucas, who represents James Bay, called the proposal “fabulous,” saying Concert put a lot of thought into it...

 

What does "harmonize" with surrounding heritage buildings actually mean? Some faux copper elements? Plant some ivy to grow up the side? Why can't it be good contemporary architecture that stands on its own? I'd hate to think what this project would look like if Concert had put little thought into it. Perhaps Ms. Lucas has seen something other than the design shown on here, as it may be many things, but "fabulous" it is not!  :whyme: 



#44 aastra

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:18 AM

 

What does "harmonize" with surrounding heritage buildings actually mean?

 

Isn't it obvious? It should fit in. It should belong. It shouldn't overwhelm. It should be sensitive. The scale should be right. It should look like a Victoria building (it should not look like a Vancouver building or a Tulsa building or a Milwaukee building).

 

Wishy-washy language is a fine art in Victoria.

 

It's funny, if this exact proposal had been the very first tower to go up back when the Y-lot was first being developed, you can bet your bottom dollar that the usual suspects would have been screaming bloody murder. But in 2015 it's awesome stuff. It makes no sense, and that's what drives me up the wall.


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#45 aastra

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:19 AM

I'd like to see some detailed renderings. The materials can also make a big difference.


Edited by aastra, 17 June 2015 - 08:21 AM.


#46 AllseeingEye

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:23 AM

"Concert hopes to harmonize its project with surrounding heritage buildings and the James Bay neighbourhood, according to the developer’s proposal....Victoria Coun. Margaret Lucas, who represents James Bay, called the proposal “fabulous,” saying Concert put a lot of thought into it...

 

What does "harmonize" with surrounding heritage buildings actually mean? Some faux copper elements? Plant some ivy to grow up the side? Why can't it be good contemporary architecture that stands on its own? I'd hate to think what this project would look like if Concert had put little thought into it. Perhaps Ms. Lucas has seen something other than the design shown on here, as it may be many things, but "fabulous" it is not!  :whyme: 

This drew my attention immediately as well. "Red brick Alert" here we come.....

 

And since the JB association has apparently so easily acquiesced to this I suspect this one will ultimately be yet another in a long list of new-ish buildings in this region that personify the very notion of being "inoffensive" - which as we all know is Victoria-speak for generally dull, uninteresting and unimaginative architecture but "HEY" at least it - very likely, apparently - won't incorporate those horrible, nasty materials such as glass and steel nor will it epitomize those completely "unbecoming of Victoria" concepts, namely slender, taller, curved etc. 


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#47 Mike K.

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:37 AM

I'll be on CFAX at 10:30 with Pamela McCall discussing this project. You can listen live at http://player.cfax1070.com


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#48 aastra

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:16 AM

 

Sight lines have been protected to ensure there’s a clear view from James Bay to St. Ann’s.
- Read more at the Times-Colonist...

   
This is confusing, no?



#49 aastra

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:22 AM

Note that back in 2004 the TC was reporting how the Humboldt Valley was being ruined by tall new buildings (tall new buildings built by Concert). If Concert towers were obviously and undeniably such a bad thing back then*, how can another Concert tower possibly be a good thing now?

*Concert towers WERE a good thing back then. They helped make the area what it is today and without them we probably wouldn't have Aria or the Falls, either. Concert created a neighbourhood where parking lots were before. But the silly premise of several TC articles was "Concert towers = bad".

 

From the memory hole:

 

 

Excerpts from "Building Boom Goes Sky High"
Times-Colonist (Malcom Curtis)
July, 2004

Coun. Pamela Madoff said the scale of the building is too big for Victoria. It's time, she said, for the city to put a firm 12-storey cap on all future buildings in the city, even those in the downtown.

"I think it's got to the point where it's become an emergency," said Madoff, a persistent critic of proposed high rises that would encircle some parts of the city, blocking views and transforming the capital's landscape.

She took a dim view of buildings on the former provincial government-owned Y-lot in the 700-block of Humboldt Street, just across from Alpha's proposed tower.

Concert Properties built the 16-storey Victoria Marriott hotel on the lot, has started the 21-storey Astoria condo building next door and is planning another 15-storey residential and commercial block on the remaining parcel. The land was pre-zoned by a previous city council.

But Madoff said the land was originally zoned for high density offices as a tradeoff for the preservation of green space around government-owned St. Ann's Academy and to help ensure that civil service jobs stayed in Victoria.

That vision got lost when the province sold the property to the private sector for other uses, and there has been little debate about it because there is no organized downtown residents' association, she said.

Madoff, council's representative on its advisory design panel, fears the Y-lot may be setting the standard for more high rises.

 

******

 

"There's no appetite whatsoever for more high rises," said Tim Van Alstine, president of the James Bay Neighbourhood Environment Association.

Van Alstine said he "totally supports" Madoff's call for a cap on building heights.

"I'm almost flipping out as a citizen of Victoria over the kind of densities in the Humboldt Valley," he said. "The beauty of Victoria is that we're a relatively low-scale city and I don't want to see that change."

James Bay residents were almost unanimous in rejecting a recent proposal by Quadra Pacific Properties to build 16-storey and 12- storey rental apartment towers on Douglas and Michigan streets near Beacon Hill Park.


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#50 Nparker

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:26 AM

Excerpts from "Building Boom Goes Sky High"
Times-Colonist (Malcom Curtis)
July, 2004

Coun. Pamela Madoff said the scale of the building is too big for Victoria. It's time, she said, for the city to put a firm 12-storey cap on all future buildings in the city, even those in the downtown.

"I think it's got to the point where it's become an emergency," said Madoff, a persistent critic of proposed high rises that would encircle some parts of the city, blocking views and transforming the capital's landscape.

Remind me again how this woman continues to get re-elected to Council? Can she please be put out to pasture once and for all?


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#51 2F2R

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:29 AM

Groan ... my wish is, tear the darn motel down and get on with it ... oh ya, add some more floors.



#52 2F2R

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:35 AM

>>>Remind me again how this woman continues to get re-elected to Council? Can she please be put out to pasture once and for all?<<<

 

I suggest, when we finally get a tall building downtown, like the supposed 24 floors at the Bay parking lot site ... we name it the "Madoff Tower" ... in her honor.


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#53 aastra

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:47 AM

When voters in Victoria wake up in the morning they don't know if they hate highrise buildings or love them. They don't know if they want to preserve Victoria's historic structures or wipe them out. Monday's ironclad principle can be Tuesday's bald-faced lie. The politicians are their guides through the murk.


Edited by aastra, 17 June 2015 - 09:47 AM.


#54 Rob Randall

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:58 AM

A reposting for those of you just joining us, the following was Westbank's first proposal for the site, a curved 24 story tower on the east side of the site. It's strange that  in 2007, 24 storeys of condos is an unacceptable outrage of the highest order but currently 15 storeys is perfectly delightful.

 

239472648.jpg     

239472733.jpg

 

And again, here is the timeline for Westbank's planning for this site, with changes requested by City Hall:

 

July 15, 2007: Rezoning Application
July 18 2007: Rezoning Submission
Dec. 20 2007: Rezoning Application Amendment
Feb. 20 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
Feb. 26 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
May 12, 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
June 13 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
June 19 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
Aug. 01 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
Sep. 09 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
Sep. 18 2008: Rezoning Re-submission Amendment
October, 2008: Westbank gives up and cancels project, withdraws $470,000 affordable housing contribution.

 

I have a feeling Concert's plan will encounter smooth sailing.


Edited by Rob Randall, 17 June 2015 - 09:59 AM.


#55 2F2R

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:03 AM

>>>a curved 24 story tower<<<

 

... would have been awesome !



#56 Nparker

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:04 AM

...I have a feeling Concert's plan will encounter smooth sailing.

Probably because it's the worst proposal to date.  :(



#57 Rob Randall

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:06 AM

 

>>>a curved 24 story tower<<<

 

... would have been awesome !

 

 

Yes, that diagram doesn't do the design justice.

 

When voters in Victoria wake up in the morning they don't know if they hate highrise buildings or love them. They don't know if they want to preserve Victoria's historic structures or wipe them out. Monday's ironclad principle can be Tuesday's bald-faced lie. The politicians are their guides through the murk.

 

The no-man's-land location doesn't help. It's Downtown, James Bay, Fairfield and none of them. It's an urban area, a residential neighbourhood, a park corridor, the site calls for tall majesty or intimate coziness. It's whatever you wish it to be.


Edited by Rob Randall, 17 June 2015 - 10:07 AM.


#58 2F2R

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:11 AM

>>>It's whatever you wish it to be<<<

 

Except the location of a beautiful 24 floored ultra modern curved building ... personally, I think it was the perfect location for such a building


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#59 amor de cosmos

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:16 AM

What does "harmonize" with surrounding heritage buildings actually mean? Some faux copper elements? Plant some ivy to grow up the side? Why can't it be good contemporary architecture that stands on its own? I'd hate to think what this project would look like if Concert had put little thought into it. Perhaps Ms. Lucas has seen something other than the design shown on here, as it may be many things, but "fabulous" it is not!  :whyme:


if steven holl wasn't good enough for you just wiki this guy:
 

wherever i am building, i think about how to create a space, in a particular time, that can both only exist and be understood in that particular location.’ – tadao ando

http://www.designboo...ork-06-12-2015/

 

not that it means there has to be lots of brick or cardboard columns or whatever on this belleville building.


Edited by amor de cosmos, 17 June 2015 - 10:21 AM.


#60 aastra

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:02 AM

I like that quote. Some soaring glass would have been appropriate for this site. Victorians would immediately understand the unique reference to the Crystal Garden and ultimately to the Crystal Palace.


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