58 replies to this topic

[johnk]

Desjardins is everywhere these days.

[Bingo]

At the meeting today, Desjardins wins narrowly over Jensen for chair.

 

For vice-chair, Jensen loses to David Howe (South Gulf Islands rep).

 

Oh deer, was it too close to cull?

[todd]

Oh deer, was it too close to cull?

 

The Cougar gets the Buck.

[Grumpy Taxpayers]

Core taxpayers worried about cost overruns on $765-million sewage treatment bill

By Stan Bartlett |  Grumpy Taxpayer$ of Greater Victoria

Strengthened regional governance model needed

 

VICTORIA – It’s far too early for taxpayers to celebrate a less expensive version of a sewage plant at McLoughlin Point, according to Grumpy Taxpayer$ of Greater Victoria.

 

Including the $65-million or so spent to date, the most recent proposal by an expert panel that’s before the CRD board puts the price tag at approximately $765-million. That’s much less expensive than the $920-million for a plant at Rock Bay or the $1-billion for plants at Rock Bay and McLoughlin.

 

“The key word in the report is ‘approximately'”, says Stan Bartlett, chairperson of Grumpy Taxpayer$ of Greater Victoria. “Taxpayers could face significantly higher annual costs than the projected $146 to $344.”

 

“Why are the annual taxpayer costs much lower than past estimates?” says Bartlett. “Is it proven technology that’s recommended or unproven, risky cutting-edge technology? Has inflation been fully costed in the estimates?”

 

After years of delay and millions of dollars wasted, questions must be asked about how and why did we get to this point. It’s estimated that by the time the project is complete its “life cycle costs” will be $927-million (Core Area Wastewater Treatment Program, Business Case, Page 8).

 

The annual projections for taxpayers include costs for capital, operating and maintenance funding, all of which could change significantly, says Bartlett.

 

The panel experts acknowledge that the CRD faces various risks to starting and completing the project (any or several of which could drive up the bill for taxpayers). Among the risks:

• The seven municipalities impacted by the sewage treatment project will need to contribute $311-million. They are on the hook for any cost overruns for the mega project as senior government financial contributions are capped.

• The CRD also funds unforeseen increases in operating and maintenance costs over the life of the wastewater and biosolids treatment plants.

• Cost estimates from the report include studies but not the construction of a possible plant for the West Shore.

There are risks typical of any large construction project and it’s fairly common for mega projects to be 30 per cent or more over budget. Notwithstanding the total bill taxpayers may be facing for the sewage treatment, the project is federally mandated.

 

Debt is mounting. The CRD has committed to spending $30-million for social housing over the next five years and is considering an expenditure of $16-million to unify 9-1-1- and police emergency dispatch services in the region. At the end of 2015, CRD debt was already $425-million, plus another $150.9-million for the Capital Regional Hospital District.

 

References: Victoria Region Debt Clock, 2016

 

[SusanJones]

CRD Regional Growth Strategy public hearing was last night.

6 people showed up.  There is no video link of proceedings etc. 

350,000 residents and 6 people show up.  Wow.

What is the message there?

 

( From website - The Regional Growth Strategy (RGS) is a vision for the future of the capital region, guiding decisions on regional issues such as transportation, population growth and settlement patterns. The RGS promotes the long term livability of the region by enhancing social, economic and environmental performance. The existing RGS is currently being updated as part of a 5-year review process.)

 

From website:

The public hearing may be the final opportunity to provide comments on the RGS before it is referred for municipal acceptance and adopted as bylaw. You can provide comments two ways:

1. In person: Come to the public hearing and register to speak
2. In writing: Complete a comment form by October 19, 2016
3. Online: A RGS Public Hearing comment form is available until October 19, 2016

https://www.crd.bc.c...growth-strategy

Did you complete the comment form?  

So many of us comment about transportation, livability etc. wondering why people did not attend this.  Any guesses? 

Attached Images

• 

Edited by SusanJones, 20 October 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[Rob Randall]

Stuff like this is too top level for all but the most dedicated planning geek. And if you're a dedicated planning geek, you're probably already working at the CRD.

If you want 300 people to show up at a planning meeting, propose Oscar Street goes to 2-hour parking or Castaña gets a rooftop garden variance.

[Bingo]

Who were the six people who showed up?

[Awaiting Juno]

I fully understand why people don't go.  If you have kids, going means hiring a babysitter (depending on availability of spouse) and spending several hours at a very work like thing, when you've already spent upwards of 8 hours that day at work.  What it speaks to is the need to move these kinds of things online, to forums like this where participation doesn't happen on a predetermined time and place, but rather at the time and place that is most convenient for users.  Conversely - when you hold the meetings during regular work hours, participation tends to be limited to those who are not actively engaged in the labour market.  

 

That, and how are these things promoted?  I'm sure #YYJChat gets far more participation than this meeting...

[Nparker]

Juno for "Supreme Ruler of the CRD" for life. 

[Awaiting Juno]

6 pm - that's an awful time to start a meeting FYI.  People might get home by 5-5:30 maybe (if they only work until 4:30), and then they have to turn around to go to such a meeting.  So are they skipping dinner or eating really late?  Really. Awful. Timing.

[J_Loveday]

I was there last night as an Alt.CRD Director.  There were 6 CRD Directors or Alt. Directors present and probably 20-30 residents.  Only 6 or 7 of the residents spoke.  I was surprised and disheartened by the lack of turnout.  I don't think it reflects a lack of interest in the issues though but more of a failure of communication and engagement by the CRD.  

[Rob Randall]

 I don't think it reflects a lack of interest in the issues though but more of a failure of communication and engagement by the CRD.  

 

Are you kidding? Look at the website:

 

https://www.crd.bc.c...growth-strategy

 

 

Infrastructure services may be impacted not only by an increased demand for the service as the population grows, but also by the form, pattern and location of new development. Servicing new development with limited or low density, which adds fewer new users per unit length of water or sewer pipe than the system average, would generally be more expensive than in denser areas. The costs of operating and maintaining this infrastructure over its lifecycle require consideration beyond the one-time capital investment. Keeping urban settlement compact will help create the densities needed to create efficient servicing infrastructure. It is also necessary to acknowledge and plan for the effects of a changing climate on regional infrastructure.

 

Who in their right mind is reading that and going, "Cool! Better DVR Survivor because I'd like to spend an entire evening reading a lot more stuff like this!"

[spanky123]

6 pm - that's an awful time to start a meeting FYI.  People might get home by 5-5:30 maybe (if they only work until 4:30), and then they have to turn around to go to such a meeting.  So are they skipping dinner or eating really late?  Really. Awful. Timing.

 

That is the general idea.

[J_Loveday]

That's actually my point. That is poor communication. The significance of the RGS and the impact that it will have on people's lives has not been communicated clearly in plain language and real life examples are not given.  I believe that if people knew the long term implications of the RGS and the ways that it interacts with their everyday life then there would have been a lot more people showing up.  

Are you kidding? Look at the website:

 

https://www.crd.bc.c...growth-strategy

 

 

Who in their right mind is reading that and going, "Cool! Better DVR Survivor because I'd like to spend an entire evening reading a lot more stuff like this!"

[Awaiting Juno]

I still question why there is a need to physically "show up" - virtually showing up is far more inclusive.

[J_Loveday]

There are other ways to for residents to weigh in but I agree that engagement needs to get with the times.  The City of Victoria has moved to E-Town Halls for our budget feedback sessions which allows people to give feedback and participate in real time from home or wherever they may be.   This will be year three and I think it has been a successful step in the right direction.  

I still question why there is a need to physically "show up" - virtually showing up is far more inclusive.

[Mike K.]

You know what would be pretty fantastical, in my opinion? Combining civic engagement sessions with a little bit of flair. It doesn't have to cost a lot, either. Have some drinks, have some appetizers, organize feedback through games or activities, and people will turn up. Official meetings don't need to be so official, they could be really engaging and fun.

 

Or at the very least maybe two forms of meetings could be held, one more formal, the other more lax and fun.

[Nparker]

You know what would be pretty fantastical, in my opinion? Combining civic engagement sessions with a little bit of flair...

The precedent has already been set by the CoV to pay certain groups of people for their civic engagement.

[spanky123]

^ Heck a cup of tea and a biscuit would be enough to get 50% of Victoria's retirees out at a meeting.

[SusanJones]

We would be happy to do public engagement on behalf of CRD on our #YYJChat and I'm certain Mike here of Vibrant Victoria would be willing to help as well.  

 

All super great info you've all shared, thank you very much, I'm sure Councillor Loveday will pass on.

 

Watch this Ted Talk - it's excellent!

How you engage the public akin to how Nike sells their shoes.  https://www.ted.com/...idote_to_apathy