1947 replies to this topic

[G-Man]

While I would prefer a P3 or a mixed use facility, I am strongly in support of maintaining Crystal Pool in some form. I use it all the time and it is always busy when I am there. Oak Bay and Esquimalt are hardly just a little ways away.

[Mike K.]

Had it not been for the extension, this November would have been an election year.

[Nparker]

Had it not been for the extension, this November would have been an election year.

Yeah, it's a travesty to have to endure 4 years of these screwball municipal councils.

[VicHockeyFan]

The place is not near condemnation, it can be preserved and operational for another 1.5 years.

 

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[spanky123]

If you read the report from the city, the pool is tired and needs some equipment repairs and updating but it is perfectly functional. What the City identifies as option 1 is actually a retrofit and upgrade and not just a refurbishment. The proposal includes everything from new elevators, change rooms and exercise facilities as well as modernization of HVAC and electrical systems and a seismic upgrade. On that basis it makes sense that if the intent is to gut everything in a building and replace it with new, then you are probably better off to just build a new building. I don't believe that is what most home or business owners would do it if was their money. Option 1 would be to fix what needed to be fixed, modernize what made sense and leave what was working intact. It doesn't appear as though anyone studied THAT option other than to say that maintenance would be $1M a year instead of $250K a year on a new building.

Edited by spanky123, 17 February 2017 - 08:34 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

Yes, there is no way EVERYTHING is busting at the same point.  In your 100-year-old house, your plumbing does not go in the same year as you electrical, siding and roofing.

[G-Man]

I would agree with the refurb idea. I think that for 20 million you could fix it up to last another 60 70 years. Sure it would need to be closed for most of the time. It is fairly decent in my opinion.

[VicHockeyFan]

Why not build a new pool in an addition, and when that's open, you begin to convert the existing pool space to a couple kids pools, a hot tub and some dry-floor space?

 

Be creative here.  If you do what I've said above, your worst case scenario is the new pool is at best 60m away from the existing pool and change-rooms etc. (less if the new pool goes at the east of the building.

 

This whole idea of spending an extra $20M to prevent the pool from having a 2-year closure is nuts!   Sidney, View Royal, Highlands and Metchosin have NEVER had a pool, those kids still seem to know how to swim.

[G-Man]

View Royal is closer to Juan de Fuca rec then some parts of Victoria are to Crystal Pool. Regionally a pool where Crystal Pool is makes sense. Highlands and Metchosin are not nearly dense enough to need them. 

[spanky123]

Why not build a new pool in an addition, and when that's open, you begin to convert the existing pool space to a couple kids pools, a hot tub and some dry-floor space?

 

Be creative here.  If you do what I've said above, your worst case scenario is the new pool is at best 60m away from the existing pool and change-rooms etc. (less if the new pool goes at the east of the building.

 

This whole idea of spending an extra $20M to prevent the pool from having a 2-year closure is nuts!   Sidney, View Royal, Highlands and Metchosin have NEVER had a pool, those kids still seem to know how to swim.

 

Looking at the history of what was said in the staff reports the initial closure estimate last summer was between 10 and 16 months. In December it became 12 to 18 months, on Friday afternoon Mayor Helps said 2 years and on CHEK Friday night the City parks person said more than 2 years.

 

I believe that the only option ever under serious consideration was a new building. What the Mayor and staff have been doing (in my opinion) is simply trying to convince the public now that it should be their only option as well.

[Bingo]

I believe that the only option ever under serious consideration was a new building.

What the Mayor and staff have been doing (in my opinion) is simply trying to convince the public now that it should be their only option as well.

 

I still think that this is an opportunity to include a new # 1 Firehall on the same property and as part of the overall design.

If we are putting the fire hall on the back-burner (pun intended) that plan will come back to bite COV after the big earthquake when we will need a functioning fire department, but not so much a place to go swimming.

[VicHockeyFan]

What is the boundaries of where a firehall should go? No point putting it too close to the Bay St. One.

[Bingo]

What is the boundaries of where a firehall should go? No point putting it too close to the Bay St. One.

 

The Bay Street one could be closed and all of their trucks and the fire pole could be moved to the new hall.

[jonny]

Seventy million dollars. 

 

The cost they have thrown out for this really is unfathomable. This better be some Rolls Royce rec centre for $70M. It will house a 12 lane Olympic sized pool and have two or three hockey rinks, right?

 

SOFMC cost some $30M.

 

The Westhills Aquatic Centre was $30M. 

 

A YMCA (Quarry Park) with a 25m pool in Calgary is being built for $40M. 

 

The figure they are throwing around for a new rec centre in Kelowna is $50M. 

 

The bloody Atrium only cost some $40-50M.

 

The Grandview Aquatics Centre in Surrey was $55M (completed just over one year ago). 

 

 

 

The new facility, on the corner of 168th Street and 24th Avenue, will feature a 10-lane Olympic-sized pool, a 50-metre competitive main pool, a family and leisure pool, water slides, diving towers and a weight room.

 

The $70M cost they are speaking of is crazy. Any recent Canadian municipal rec centre type projects similar to this one that I can find that cost more than this project is going to included hockey rinks. The cost the CoV is speaking of simply does not pass the smell test.

Edited by jonny, 19 February 2017 - 12:41 PM.

[On the Level]

You forgot the North Langford Recreation Centre.  It's build price was only $7 to $8M.  Now granted, it includes an outdoor pool and hot tub, but it's still a nice facility with fitness areas etc.

 

The Westhills Aquatic Centre was only $30M and includes a 3 story recreation centre with gymnasiums, a conservatory of music centre, library, daycare, teen drop in centre, workout floor, and a number of yoga rooms etc.

 

I don't understand why Crystal Pool would cost $70M.  Can't the CoV look to the YMCA for some expertise?   They have just finished building two centres in the CRD and the downtown one is getting old and need a refresh.  Could save the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars and it would be much less likely to be mismanaged causing cost overruns....

[spanky123]

This is how the City estimates the cost:

 

Hard and soft costs of facility      $45M

Cost escalation due 2018 start   $10M

Construction contingency 20%   $7M

Project contingency 10%            $6.2M

 

Aside from the fact that their contingency numbers don't add up (20% equals $7M and 10% equals $6.2M), I can't see how inflation is 20% in one year! It really looks like the $45M million has been padded a huge amount so that either they can reduce the chance of a cost overrun or that the extra money can be used for other purposes.

 

Also of note in the City's staff report was a suggestion that the gasoline tax fund could be tapped to get extra money for the project.

[aastra]

 

The cost the CoV is speaking of simply does not pass the smell test.

 

Something tells me many Victorians have no idea what a $70 million centre should look like. Folks, as municipal swimming pools go this place should be the envy of the entire country. It should be top-notch in every aspect, including the architectural design. Anything less and you're absolutely right, something stinks.*

 

Dorval, $20 million:

http://montrealgazet...ring-completion

 

 

After checking modern facilities in the Montreal area, Dorval decided a 25-metre semi-Olympic size pool with two one-metre high diving boards and a larger capacity recreational pool suited its needs more, Rouleau said.

 

“We don’t want to compete with Dollard (in water-polo) and Pointe-Claire (in diving), which are so close,” Rouleau said of these elite programs.

 

So... Victoria does want to compete with Commonwealth? Is that the idea? Gotta spend money to make money?

 

*edit looking back in 2019: it seems like municipalities everywhere jumped on the "iconic" aquatic centre train right around the same time, and suddenly your obligatory new pool was going to cost around $100 million just by default, even though it was no shame for places to be spending a fraction of that amount just a few years earlier.

Edited by aastra, 30 January 2019 - 04:56 PM.

[jonny]

Anybody else find it odd that Victoria doesn't have a proper municipal ice rink? Many small towns have two or three.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ Does seem a bit odd.

[tedward]

Anybody else find it odd that Victoria doesn't have a proper municipal ice rink? Many small towns have two or three.

 

You are just taking the piss now.

 

The city did the deal for Memorial arena (our municipal ice rink) because people like you demanded that it be a P3 and now you are making a stink?