1947 replies to this topic

[rjag]

 people like you demanded that it be a P3

 

People like you.....wow....who are 'people like you'? 

 

On a lighter less angry note, when Lisa was on the Friday CFAX slot a retired Vic High principal called in and suggested the new pool should be tied in to a new sports complex at Vic High sited in the park beside the school. I think thats an excellent idea as its not unlike the Oak Bay Rec sited beside OB high school. That way the land on Quadra could be utilised for affordable housing, a new fire hall etc. the costs would be the same and perhaps by partnering with SD61 and Vic High the design could be enhanced further.

[Nparker]

As much as I loathe the expression, Council has really failed to "think outside the box" when it comes to the Crystal Pool situation. The outrageous replacement cost notwithstanding, the failure to suggest anything even slightly innovative around this project is terribly disappointing, if not entirely surprising.

[spanky123]

You are just taking the piss now.

 

The city did the deal for Memorial arena (our municipal ice rink) because people like you demanded that it be a P3 and now you are making a stink? 

 

I don' t that anyone demanded it be a P3. I think that the City recognized that the only way it could get approval and get the thing built was by going that route. Whether or not it has turned out financially as planned is open for debate.

[VicHockeyFan]

You are just taking the piss now.

The city did the deal for Memorial arena (our municipal ice rink) because people like you demanded that it be a P3 and now you are making a stink?

Nobody was making a stink. It is just odd we do not have rink that can handle a regular ice schedule for amateur users. Save On has to close the ice sheet for Royals, concerts etc.

[jonny]

You are just taking the piss now.

 

What does this even mean?

 

The city did the deal for Memorial arena (our municipal ice rink) because people like you demanded that it be a P3 and now you are making a stink? 

 

Well, SOFMC is booked off regularly for more important events than pee wee hockey. It's an entertainment venue, not a municipal rink for kids.

 

A stink? It's just an observation. The City of Victoria apparently needs a gold plated pool and athletic facility, meanwhile the YMCA provides one literally just down the street, and there are numerous other very good pools in Greater Victoria. The competitive marketplace provides many athletic training type places at low cost, so it's not like the taxpayer really needs to provide that. It's also not like anybody would be particularly burdened if Crystal Pool was closed for a year and renovated instead of us building a brand new elite level $70M facility.

 

I think it's kind of funny that the City of Victoria needs a 50m pool, yet we seem to get by without a dedicated amateur hockey rink. I bet competitive hockey is more popular in Victoria than competitive swimming.

 

It's also worth asking, what are the options? How many basketball courts could the city build for $70M? How many running tracks could that buy? The city has really presented just one option. Why are they pushing competition level swimming and not other sports? Seems odd to me. Is this thing going to just be a status symbol?

[Jason-L]

What does this even mean?

"Taking the piss" is slang for being unreasonable or obtuse.

[spanky123]

What does this even mean?

 

 

Well, SOFMC is booked off regularly for more important events than pee wee hockey. It's an entertainment venue, not a municipal rink for kids.

 

A stink? It's just an observation. The City of Victoria apparently needs a gold plated pool and athletic facility, meanwhile the YMCA provides one literally just down the street, and there are numerous other very good pools in Greater Victoria. The competitive marketplace provides many athletic training type places at low cost, so it's not like the taxpayer really needs to provide that. It's also not like anybody would be particularly burdened if Crystal Pool was closed for a year and renovated instead of us building a brand new elite level $70M facility.

 

I think it's kind of funny that the City of Victoria needs a 50m pool, yet we seem to get by without a dedicated amateur hockey rink. I bet competitive hockey is more popular in Victoria than competitive swimming.

 

It's also worth asking, what are the options? How many basketball courts could the city build for $70M? How many running tracks could that buy? The city has really presented just one option. Why are they pushing competition level swimming and not other sports? Seems odd to me. Is this thing going to just be a status symbol?

 

It is silly to think that competitions or clubs would move from SCP to Victoria if we built a 50m pool. SCP not only has a competition pool, it has a warm up pool and dive facilities as well. Victoria would be far better served with a good family oriented pool and a decent gym and workout area.

[spanky123]

That way the land on Quadra could be utilised for affordable housing, a new fire hall etc. the costs would be the same and perhaps by partnering with SD61 and Vic High the design could be enhanced further.

 

And that is why I think that the Mayor is asking for $70M. The actual hard and soft costs of the pool are estimated at $45M and no doubt she will try and second any remaining funds to apply to homeless initiatives.

[jonny]

As much as I loathe the expression, Council has really failed to "think outside the box" when it comes to the Crystal Pool situation. The outrageous replacement cost notwithstanding, the failure to suggest anything even slightly innovative around this project is terribly disappointing, if not entirely surprising.

 

City staff recommended that City Council consider three options:

1. Renovating the existing facility for $41M
2. Expand and renovate the existing facility for $57M 
3. Build a brand new facility for $69.4M

Council chose the most expensive option (by far). We're paying a lot of money to ensure there won't be any sort of closure!

[Jenn P]

City staff recommended that City Council consider three options:

• Renovating the existing facility for $41M
• Expand and renovate the existing facility for $57M
• Build a brand new facility for $69.4M

Council chose the most expensive option (by far). We're paying a lot of money to ensure there won't be any sort of closure!

Pretty sure they think all the revenue they get is just magic money that appears out of nowhere and that their job is to spend it like a sailor on shore leave.
Not sure they are alive to the fact that many of us work very hard for the money and would be happier forking over our municipal taxes if we thought the money was going to be managed well.

[jonny]

It is silly to think that competitions or clubs would move from SCP to Victoria if we built a 50m pool. SCP not only has a competition pool, it has a warm up pool and dive facilities as well. Victoria would be far better served with a good family oriented pool and a decent gym and workout area.

 

I'm personally fine with a 50m pool. I think in Canada we can do a lot better in terms of competitive sports. There are far worse things we could be doing than encouraging kids to swim.

 

That price tag though, wow. My guess is the city is banking on some fairly large provincial and federal grants because this city can't possibly afford the number of ongoing and planned major projects. For this price tag, I would expect one heck of a full meal deal rec centre with multiple pools and gyms and racquet courts or a competition level place with spectator seating.

[VicHockeyFan]

Why are we considering the rec centre before the fire hall?  Simply, why?  Oh I have an idea.  Because they can try to win this referendum, then talk about the cost of the fire hall, and say it's essential..

[VicHockeyFan]

 

....Researchers behind the study estimated that in one 833,000-litre pool — a third of an Olympic-sized pool — swimmers had discharged about 75 litres of urine at the time it was sampled. That volume is roughly equivalent to 20 large milk jugs sold in the grocery store.

 

 

Your worst fears of pee in pools have been confirmed by a gross University of Alberta study

 

 

 

http://news.national...f-alberta-study

[Rob Randall]

^Or so the dossier claims. Fake news!

[Mike K.]

From Ross Crockford at Focus. Mr. Crockford will be CFAX today at 1PM discussing this project.

 

A pool of money, Olympic-sized

http://www.focusonvi...mpic-sized-r11/

 

ON FEBRUARY 16, Victoria councillors agreed to direct City staff to draw up plans to replace Crystal Pool, at a cost of up to $69.4 million, and to hold a referendum, likely at the end of 2017, that could see the City borrowing up to $60 million — the largest amount in its history. But Victorians are going to be asking many other questions before we see the one on the referendum ballot.

 

Do we really need a new pool? Six years ago, a report by CEI Architecture said Crystal’s mechanical and electrical systems had “effectively reached the point of failure” and the pool was at risk of “immediate shutdown.” Last December, a followup study by HCMA Architecture + Design estimated that refurbishing the pool would cost $41 million and add 30 years to its life, while a $69.4-million replacement would last 50 years. There’s not much difference in per-year costs, but HCMA claimed a new facility would tap into a “latent demand” for swimming, resulting in a 22 percent increase in use.

 

Why so expensive? HCMA recommended a 50-metre new pool, based on surveys of some 1200 people (presumably most of them current users), and estimated it would cost $35 million to build. The other half of the $70-million budget is taken up by “soft costs” (design, project management), escalation, and funding for contingencies. This means the City won’t have to drain its reserves to cover overruns as it has for the new Johnson Street Bridge. [Full article]

[Ridley1]

 

That price tag though, wow. My guess is the city is banking on some fairly large provincial and federal grants because this city can't possibly afford the number of ongoing and planned major projects. For this price tag, I would expect one heck of a full meal deal rec centre with multiple pools and gyms and racquet courts or a competition level place with spectator seating.

 

Well...this price is small in comparison to other full fledged rec centers. Typical looking at $120m+ for centers in Edmonton/Calgary. Yes these will most often include a rink which is most likely not part of this plan, so take off $20m - $30m, that puts it at about $90-$100m. Not an unreasonable amount for a rec center......

[jonny]

I think we've covered enough comparables in this thread to conclude that the $70 million price tag attached to this one is ridonkulous.

 

The huge new centres built in Edmonton and Calgary have multiple swimming pools and multiple hockey rinks and other stuff like libraries. This is one pool, zero rinks and zero libraries. They are not comparable.

[VicHockeyFan]

Ridley1, I notice your only 2 posts on this entire forum defend the price of the JSB and the price of the Crystal Pool.  Is that all you have?

[Ridley1]

Ridley1, I notice your only 2 posts on this entire forum defend the price of the JSB and the price of the Crystal Pool.  Is that all you have?

guess for now! ......and was not intention in defending just making a comment. that is all....based on your comments maybe that is all I will do, but thanks for the comment.

[Daveyboy]

guess for now! ......and was not intention in defending just making a comment. that is all....based on your comments maybe that is all I will do, but thanks for the comment.

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's!!