1947 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

We ran out of paint.

[spanky123]

So... we do need to replace the Crystal Pool?!?

 

I don't understand you "urgency" point. Either the facility needs to be replaced or it doesn't, and since it is only going to get more expensive to do it, why shouldn't we get started?

 

What the pool needs is a refurbishment. The same thing that countless businesses and homeowners do when it is their money they are spending. You fix the holes and cracks, updated old systems, give the place a coat of paint and call it a day. That cost is around $6M if I recall and will extend the life another 25-30 years. 

 

What was used as a cost of refurbishment included all sorts of things that no reasonable person or business would ever undertake themselves when refurbishing or renovating their own premises. One simple item that was pointed out earlier was the repair of an electrical panel door that had become corroded. Someone reasonable would spend $150 and replace the panel door. The solution for Crystal Pool was to move the entire electrical room along with all wiring to the other side of the building!

 

It looks to me like there was never any serious attempt by the City to quantify a proper refurb on the pool. In my opinion the only solution was to build a new pool and all that happened is that they went to lengths to try and justify that decision. In my opinion Helps knows that a referendum will be defeated which is why she is trying everything she can to get funds to avoid that scenario. 

[VicHockeyFan]

I agree. It’s hard to think every piece of the building has expired at the same time.

[Mike K.]

So now long before City Hall needs to be replaced?

But notice how the Empress ...privately owned ...was meticulously refurbished. It too could have been bombed out and replaced with a flashy new building.

[Bingo]

The whole situation just sounds too darned similar to the bridge fiasco, how we were told refurbishment was out of the question due to a b and c, but now we're stuck with a significantly delayed bridge and costs nearly double what we had originally anticipated to pay. And the final price could still rise by many millions of dollars once fendering is worked into the equation and once the fitting process begins.

 

Anything in Victoria that needs replacing and involves moving water is easy to justify to the people who are afraid of water and don't know how to swim upstream. Then there is the dreaded pack-rust that doomed the bridge and is likely lurking in the Crystal Pools change lockers, so we need to tear down the building. And then there is the fendering needed to keep swimmers from colliding into the end of the pool. What about the toilets that need the four inch pipe replaced because the turds can't find their way out. A new building will remedy that and will have a direct pipe to the Hartland Landfill.  All this and more coming to a fiasco near you.

[jonny]

^^ Exactly. Instead of our dear leaders being adult enough to come straight out and say we want a new bridge/pool/firehall because of this, this and that (i.e. our political legacy and to spend as much public money as possible), we get fed some smoke and mirrors financial analysis BS that has too many holes in it to to even begin to count. 

 

Isn't one of the major rationale for the CoV "needing" a new pool facility is that we apparently couldn't withstand one of our ~12 or 15 public pools being closed for several months? Give me a break...

[Cassidy]

Like previous city administrations did with the arena and the bridge, the "new" pool has nothing to do with actually needing anything, instead it's got everything to do with local politicians and how they like to manipulate their personal political optics - as seen by their base of repeat voters.

 

Like the new arena was seen as city hall "doing something", and the bridge was seen by the following administration as "doing something", the current council hasn't really "done" anything beyond bike lanes (which haven't exactly received universal support).

 

So they came up with the idea of a new pool.

 

Why a "new" pool? ... because refurbishing an old pool doesn't do anything to cement your political legacy in the long term, or make it look like you're actually doing something worthwhile (and worthy of being re-elected) in the short term.

 

What the new pool really is, is politicians using taxpayers hard earned money to further their own personal, political agenda.

 

Being responsible to the taxpayers, and therefore being responsible politicians would result in the refurbishing of the existing pool to "as new" condition, as noted in detail in the posts above.

[Bingo]

Some folks will say that owning a boat is like putting money into a hole in the water, and in Victoria's case a new pool is an expensive hole in the ground in which you put water.

[DavidL]

It looks to me like there was never any serious attempt by the City to quantify a proper refurb on the pool. ...

 

It seems to me that the 2015 Stantec report was a pretty good start.  They've just chosen to ignore it I suppose.  Looking at the site I can't help but think that you could probably figure out a way to fit a pool and some housing in there...

[tedward]

What the pool needs is a refurbishment.

 

Ah, OK I get your point.

 

I'm kind of excited about the idea of maybe a new rec centre built into the first couple of floors of a housing complex, but since that apparently isn't going to happen I'd have to say I'd be happy to see a refurbishment for now.

[seymour201]

Looks Like its awarded...

 

 

"A contract has been awarded for the design of the Crystal Pool and Wellness Centre replacement in Victoria.

HCMA Architecture + Design will provide architectural and engineering services and lead the next phase of planning for the new facility.

Victoria Council voted to replace the nearly 50-year-old Crystal Pool in February and approved a $69.4 million budget."

 

https://www.cheknews...project-393557/

Edited by seymour201, 01 December 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[Nparker]

And when will the funding referendum be held?

[shoeflack]

If they can't confirm funding from other sources then I would imagine the referendum would take place alongside the municipal election in October. Seems silly that they'd hold a standalone referendum.

 

Anyways, nice to see a local firm lead the design process. They've designed some pretty amazing pools, including the ones at Hillcrest and Grandview Heights on the mainland.

[Nparker]

If they can't confirm funding from other sources then I would imagine the referendum would take place alongside the municipal election in October. Seems silly that they'd hold a standalone referendum...

Unless the CoV has been told to keep mum on external funding there doesn't seem to be much indication that either Ottawa or the Province is coming up with the needed $60 million. Does the City have a "plan B" if the the electorate says no to another huge infrastructure expenditure, which would be entirely reasonable in light of the JSB fiasco?

[shoeflack]

They've identified a deadline of Summer 2018 for external funding. If I know one thing about government funding, they normally don't come until the very last minute. I doubt we'll hear anything on it for a while.

 

It's worth noting that the Mayor is keen to support Songhees on their 2020 North American Indigenous Games bid and that government hasn't said no. As this would be a key venue for that event, I would expect federal funding should that get serious. It opens up a whole other funding window.

[Nparker]

.. If I know one thing about government funding, they normally don't come until the very last minute. ...

Unless it's politically expedient to announce it, like the numerous times the $60 million figure for affordable housing initiatives in the CRD has been bandied about for the past 18 months. 

[VicHockeyFan]

So with the $3.3M design spend on the pool, it's some kind of choice we are left with.

 

Hope that the big funding never comes, and Helps looks like a fool, but we are out $3.3M.

 

Or the money comes, the pool gets built and Helps looks like a shrewd operator.

[Bingo]

So with the $3.3M design spend on the pool, it's some kind of choice we are left with.

 

Hope that the big funding never comes, and Helps looks like a fool, but we are out $3.3M.

 

Or the money comes, the pool gets built and Helps looks like a shrewd operator.

 

I get a bit nervous when the city says we can do it for 60 million and a project ends up costing 108 million.

Hey wait a minute I don't live in the city, and I never enter pools, not even hockey pools. 

[spanky123]

So with the $3.3M design spend on the pool, it's some kind of choice we are left with.

 

Hope that the big funding never comes, and Helps looks like a fool, but we are out $3.3M.

 

Or the money comes, the pool gets built and Helps looks like a shrewd operator.

 

That is the whole point, spend $3M and then claim that the money is lost unless we move forward. A responsible Mayor and council would wait to confirm external funding before they spent the money on design.

[spanky123]

They've identified a deadline of Summer 2018 for external funding. If I know one thing about government funding, they normally don't come until the very last minute. I doubt we'll hear anything on it for a while.

 

It's worth noting that the Mayor is keen to support Songhees on their 2020 North American Indigenous Games bid and that government hasn't said no. As this would be a key venue for that event, I would expect federal funding should that get serious. It opens up a whole other funding window.

 

The deadline was this fall, it was moved back once the City couldn't secure funding. Even if the pool is built and completed on time, it won't be ready for the 2020 games and we have a perfectly serviceable, competition pool in Saanich.