1327 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

Some might also ask why it take the TC 500 days to come out with this opinion.

 

- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.dsomz1gJ.dpuf

 

You could use the "time to move on" argument about a lot of things. Fraud cases are very expensive to pursue as an example. It will likely cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands to pursue Backer if it gets that far. Maybe we should just throw in the towel on him as well. His career in finance is over as Elsner's is in policing.

 

The mess we are in with Elsner is 100% the doing of the police board and specifically Helps and Desjardins in my opinion. They tried to bury complaints against Elsner and then lied about it when caught. They have decided to continue to pay his salary and legal fees even though they are not required to do so and have in my opinion obstructed attempts by the public to gain access to information like Elsner's employment contract so that we could make our own determination of what is owed and the conditions of employment.

 

It is clear from Heed's 180 degree turn and the TC's opinion that this should all go away, that the Liberals are worried that the disciplinary hearing this week might cast Desjardins in a bad light if the harassment and assault complaints are upheld. Too bad for them. I think if this week's complaints are upheld then the OPCC won't be that interested in pursuing all of the remaining cases before the court. Whether you have 3 or 8 convictions of misconduct likely doesn't move the needle at all in terms of outcome.

 

We have come this far, no point in throwing everything away just to keep Clark happy.

Edited by spanky123, 18 April 2017 - 07:18 AM.

[spanky123]

The Board is afraid of firing him because they don't want a long, drawn-out legal battle. Oh, wait...

 

It is clear from Helps' recent comments that Elsner has proposed a settlement of some sort with the police board in recent weeks. My guess is that the offer isn't to just resign and walk away. I think that regardless of outcome, there will likely continue to be legal action between Elsner and the police board / City. The taxpayer will likely pay for his legal fees to do so as well.

[Mike K.]

Do we have any information related to a possible legal action by the woman with whom Elsner was having the social media exchanges with? Is it possible it is her that instigated the contact, and maintained it? Or at the very least, if the contact was equally maintained by both sides, that she could have a grievance against the force/City/OPCC?

[rmpeers]

My question is, what magical thing would have to happen for the police board to decide that maybe it's not a great idea to continue flushing thousands and thousands of hard-earned tax dollars down the toilet to pay someone who they long since established behaved badly?

I'm not criticizing the mayor here - I know it was just what the police board voted, nothing at all to do with her, but is there a point at which blatantly wasting tax money becomes unacceptable?

Edited by rmpeers, 18 April 2017 - 09:00 AM.

[spanky123]

Do we have any information related to a possible legal action by the woman with whom Elsner was having the social media exchanges with? Is it possible it is her that instigated the contact, and maintained it? Or at the very least, if the contact was equally maintained by both sides, that she could have a grievance against the force/City/OPCC?

 

I don't think that we know the scope of the alleged harrassment and assault claims at this point. In cases where employers have been found guilty of covering up or ignoring harrassment or assault and the victims have established that their careers, emotional state, or health has been impacted as a result then civil action is quite common.

 

We also don't know to what extent the full police board has been involved in any decision making up until this point. We know from court documents late in 2015 that at least one police board member wrote to Mayor's Helps and Desjardin accusing them in effect of withholding information from the board and ignoring board instructions to involve them in the decision making process.

[PraiseKek]

Are they not worried at all that it looks like as a police officer you are above the law here? I mean seriously. In no other profession could you stand accused of wrongdoing like this and continue to be paid.

[57WestHills]

Are they not worried at all that it looks like as a police officer you are above the law here? I mean seriously. In no other profession could you stand accused of wrongdoing like this and continue to be paid.

That's untrue. Most professionals can be and are suspended with pending the outcome of an investigation. They're just not as widely publicized.

[spanky123]

That's untrue. Most professionals can be and are suspended with pending the outcome of an investigation. They're just not as widely publicized.

 

I think that most professionals who admit to wrongdoing do not get paid during the investigation nor do they have their legal fees paid to then go and sue their own employer!

[PraiseKek]

That's untrue. Most professionals can be and are suspended with pending the outcome of an investigation. They're just not as widely publicized.

You can't be serious. Anyone in any other profession would be punted and told not to come back. But rules don't apply to police in this case.

Edited by PraiseKek, 18 April 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[spanky123]

You can't be serious. Anyone in any other profession would be punted and told not to come back. But rules don't apply to police in this case.

 

If you are working in the private sector and a co-worker or customer randomly accuses you of something then I wouldn't expect that you would lose your job or have your pay withheld without some sort of investigation first. That of course isn't the case here. Not only has Elsner admitted to misconduct, the OPCC, the RCMP Chief Constable and two judges have all found that there is sufficient evidence to take this to a disciplinary hearing. Only in Helps' mind is that is an unsettled issue.

Edited by spanky123, 18 April 2017 - 01:29 PM.

[57WestHills]

You can't be serious. Anyone in any other profession would be punted and told not to come back. But rules don't apply to police in this case.

Doctors, lawyers, pilots, Judges. Certainly more. Sorry it's not just Police.

I agreed with an earlier post of Spanky123, though, the good faith suspension portion of this all should be up.

Edited by 57WestHills, 18 April 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[PraiseKek]

If you are working in the private sector and a co-worker or customer randomly accuses you of something then I wouldn't expect that you would lose your job or have your pay withheld without some sort of investigation first. That of course isn't the case here. Not only has Elsner admitted to misconduct, the OPCC, the RCMP Chief Constable and two judges have all found that there is sufficient evidence to take this to a disciplinary hearing. Only in Helps' mind is that is an unsettled issue.

Not true at all. I've seen people fired for mere accusations. I had a CEO that was sacked under pretty similar circumstances too. It's different for cops though.

[sdwright.vic]

This guy (Elsner) has no dignity whatsoever.

[57WestHills]

Not true at all. I've seen people fired for mere accusations. I had a CEO that was sacked under pretty similar circumstances too. It's different for cops though.

So you've seen one thing and then generalized to every employment group other than Police? Time to widen your horizons from the Internet.

[spanky123]

This guy (Elsner) has no dignity whatsoever.

 

Agreed but hard to fault him for his legal maneuvers. Helps and Desjardins have made it clear that they are going to continue to pay him as long as he is the Chief. They have also made it clear that they will fund whatever inane legal challenge he might come up with. You would have to think that Elsner can delay this process with appeals and court challenges for years. Nice to have a continued source of income while you get your pot consulting (my personal categorization) business off the ground.

Edited by spanky123, 19 April 2017 - 08:19 AM.

[spanky123]

Doctors, lawyers, pilots, Judges. Certainly more. Sorry it's not just Police.

I agreed with an earlier post of Spanky123, though, the good faith suspension portion of this all should be up.

 

Well Bill O'Reilly just lost his job and he was never convicted or charged with anything. I am sure that he won't be left destitute however.

 

The latest Elsner decision is now available at www.canlii.org

Edited by spanky123, 19 April 2017 - 03:26 PM.

[spanky123]

The OPCC is appealing the decision to toss out the 3 investigations into Elsner. Reasons to be posted on the OPCC website within 30 days.

[rmpeers]

Did anything surface from the hearing that was scheduled for yesterday

[spanky123]

I think that the hearing started yesterday but didn't necessarily finish. The OPCC has stated that at least some of the results of the hearing would be made public.

[spanky123]

Interesting perspective from the TC.

 

http://www.timescolo...haul-1.17129034

 

It is important to remember that we are in the 'Alice in Wonderland' situation entirely because Mayor Helps and Mayor Desjardins are accused of withholding information from the OPCC, the police board and the public full stop. I have no issues updating the police act, but blaming it for the predicament we are in is silly. Had Helps and Desjardins informed the OPCC and the board of the full extent of the allegations against Elsner and properly followed the instructions they were given, then this issue would have been handled by professional investigators two years ago and we would have had a resolution long before now.

Edited by spanky123, 28 April 2017 - 08:20 AM.