11576 replies to this topic

[rjag]

> I'm comparing value for money

Clearly you aren't. The civic you posted is the same amount to buy and will cost about an extra $1000/year to run as a commuter

 

You need to understand that value proposition includes resale value as well not simple running costs, but the whole shebang. I know that the first 5 years of ownership a new Civic costs less for average usage, but after that the Leaf represents better value if you are simply comparing fuel and maintenance, but how many folks own the same car for that length of time, its minimal.

I've personally owned in excess of 30 cars over the years and advised on the purchase of at least 50 more for business/friends. I do know a thing or 3 about this field. In fact in the last 2 years alone I've bought 7 cars for myself and family members, and advised on the purchase of 4 more for friends.

Edited by rjag, 17 May 2017 - 10:15 PM.

[LeoVictoria]

http://www.fleetcarm...t-electric-car/

Average seems to be about 50,000 miles for the Leaf compared to a Civic, Marko's Tesla wins right away when compared to a Merc S class

Good article. Agreed it makes zero sense right now to buy a new Leaf for cost savings. Used makes sense right now as a commuter and that's 5 year old tech.
Model S is better than the comparable and cheaper to run.
Model 3 moves that down market from $90k car to $45k car.
New leaf will be similar range at $35k.

Then it'll be a race to see whether cheaper EVs arrive first and destroy the Civic/corolla market or if autonomous vehicles arrive first and destroy most of the car market entirely.

Mike posted about the problem with charging in condos. Once autonomous Uber arrives there is no longer any reason for a city dweller to own a car so it will be a non issue

[LeoVictoria]

You need to understand that value proposition includes resale value as well not simple running costs, but the whole shebang. I know that the first 5 years of ownership a new Civic costs less for average usage, but after that the Leaf represents better value if you are simply comparing fuel and maintenance, but how many folks own the same car for that length of time, its minimal.
I've personally owned in excess of 30 cars over the years and advised on the purchase of at least 50 more for business/friends. I do know a thing or 3 about this field. In fact in the last 2 years alone I've bought 7 cars for myself and family members, and advised on the purchase of 4 more for friends.

Not sure what your point is, we agree a new Leaf makes no economic sense.

As for owning 50 cars it's high time you drive a few electrics you will see what it's actually about. Tesla, i3, the new Jag next year...

https://electrek.co/...-i-pace-london/

Edited by LeoVictoria, 17 May 2017 - 10:24 PM.

[spanky123]

Good article. Agreed it makes zero sense right now to buy a new Leaf for cost savings. Used makes sense right now as a commuter and that's 5 year old tech.
Model S is better than the comparable and cheaper to run.
Model 3 moves that down market from $90k car to $45k car.
New leaf will be similar range at $35k.

I would bet good money that we don't see a model 3 at $45K any time soon. If Tesla's track record is any indication, it will be $45K US for an entry level stripped down version which they never wind up making anyways. My guess is that the base unit that does everything as originally advertised will be at least $60K US or about $80K+ Canadian.

[VicHockeyFan]

I've personally owned in excess of 30 cars over the years and advised on the purchase of at least 50 more for business/friends. I do know a thing or 3 about this field. In fact in the last 2 years alone I've bought 7 cars for myself and family members, and advised on the purchase of 4 more for friends.

 

You must really hate our planet.  

[rjag]

Not sure what your point is, we agree a new Leaf makes no economic sense.

As for owning 50 cars it's high time you drive a few electrics you will see what it's actually about. Tesla, i3, the new Jag next year...

https://electrek.co/...-i-pace-london/

I have driven Prius, Cayenne and the Leaf EV. Not really impressed with any. It's not about straight line performance or hypermiling or cost to run but the experience. I think I'd like Marlo's Tesla
Talking with one of my contacts at Infiniti yesterday and they have a hybrid Frontier pickup that's pretty useless as the capacity is down 2/3 for load or towing. It's going to be a garage queen and not utility. It's been there for a week with a few lookers but all walk away when they discover its lack of utility

[lanforod]

I have driven Prius, Cayenne and the Leaf EV. Not really impressed with any. It's not about straight line performance or hypermiling or cost to run but the experience. I think I'd like Marlo's Tesla
Talking with one of my contacts at Infiniti yesterday and they have a hybrid Frontier pickup that's pretty useless as the capacity is down 2/3 for load or towing. It's going to be a garage queen and not utility. It's been there for a week with a few lookers but all walk away when they discover its lack of utility

 

What Frontier hybrid? I can't find any info about one of those anywhere on Nissan's websites, and not showing as in stock on Campus Infiniti's site. #fakenews

[rjag]

What Frontier hybrid? I can't find any info about one of those anywhere on Nissan's websites, and not showing as in stock on Campus Infiniti's site. #fakenews

White one sitting in the back lot behind Infiniti, I'll check to see if its the frontier or the Titan, like I said it was a conversation with a contact at Infiniti

Edited by rjag, 18 May 2017 - 07:42 AM.

[lanforod]

White one sitting in the back lot behind Infiniti, I'll check to see if its the frontier or the Titan, like I said it was a conversation with a contact at Infiniti

 

Maybe a custom converted one, as I'm pretty sure Nissan does not make any hybrid trucks currently.

[rjag]

Maybe a custom converted one, as I'm pretty sure Nissan does not make any hybrid trucks currently.

I just emailed him to confirm what he told me, will get back to you.

[LeoVictoria]

I have driven Prius, Cayenne and the Leaf EV. 

 

Hybrids are not EVs, and a Leaf is meant to compete with a Corolla/Civic/Fit/Versa.   Obviously you won't be impressed with those if you are used to luxury cars.  

 

Drive a Tesla and an i3 around and see what you think.  

Edited by LeoVictoria, 18 May 2017 - 08:04 AM.

[rjag]

Maybe a custom converted one, as I'm pretty sure Nissan does not make any hybrid trucks currently.

Sorry it was a Pathfinder Hybrid, I misheard him. They discontinued the model due to low sales and they have this one unicorn sitting in the back. My mistake I should have confirmed prior to posting 

[LeoVictoria]

The Leaf is yesterday's news.   The battery cooling sucks, the range is limited, they are based on 10 year old tech, and the price is too high.   I wouldn't recommend buying a new one to anyone.    

I saw an opportunity in the used space where I could trade in the gas car and get a better driving experience while breaking even or ending up somewhat ahead on costs.  That's why Campus nissan is shifting 25 used Leafs a month and Motorize probably just as many.  There are tons around victoria and as a second car they make sense when bought used.   

 

But the real story are the new models out there that have solved the deficiencies of the Leaf.   Range and battery cooling are solved problems, so the only thing that remains is price.  And if you think technology doesn't rapidly drop in price then you haven't been paying attention.

Edited by LeoVictoria, 18 May 2017 - 08:22 AM.

[lanforod]

Which year did they solve the issues in the Leaf? I'll look at picking up one of those in a few years...

[MarkoJ]

The Leaf is old news....not sure why anyone would buy a new Leaf when you will be able to pick this up for $35,995 later this year

 

 

 

[MarkoJ]

Then it'll be a race to see whether cheaper EVs arrive first and destroy the Civic/corolla market or if autonomous vehicles arrive first and destroy most of the car market entirely.

 

Cheaper EVs are 5 years out, autonomous vehicles 15 to 20, imo.  Changing legislation alone will be 5 years worth of paperwork/studies/etc.

[LeoVictoria]

The Leaf is old news....not sure why anyone would buy a new Leaf when you will be able to pick this up for $35,995 later this year

 

Same range as a Leaf, same performance, except the Leaf is being blown out due to new version arriving later this year, so you will get a Leaf for much cheaper.   Introducing a sub 200km electric in 2017 seems dumb.

New Leaf will be twice the range of the eGolf (if you can even buy one here).

Edited by LeoVictoria, 18 May 2017 - 01:13 PM.

[RFS]

does anyone here with a electric vehicle live in a multi-family/strata? that is still going to be the biggest road block to EVs tipping point

http://www.timescolo...c-car-1.2219515

[LeoVictoria]

Electric vehicle sales up 68% in Canada compared to last year.   Still only about 1% of new vehicle sales but the trend is looking promising.

 

MWH Global

[laconic]

The first big problem with putting chargers in a strata is convenience. A level 2 charger will charge an empty 200 kilometer range car in just under 5 hours. If there isn't much demand for a charger then there tends not to be much of a fuss. If the charger is in use you'll have to park somewhere else, then return again to plug the car in, then return again to be nice and free up the charger for someone else. If you have your EV in the stall at 6PM, not fully charged until 10 or 11PM, are you going to go move your car out of the stall in case someone else wants to use it?

 

Having a parking stall with a charger is very convenient, but the cost of installing a charger any distance away from the electrical vault can be extremely expensive.

 

The second problem, mentioned in the article, is that the in many stratas once a stall has been allocated there is no obligation for the owner to every give it up. If the stall happens to be close to the electrical vault, or is convenient and cheap to install a charger, the stall becomes an asset for the owner and they are less likely to give it up.

 

Part of the issue for new buildings lies with developers. I have suggested that developers write a clause in the initial contract that specifies "designated future EV stalls" and requires owners to switch to other stalls should the stall be needed as an EV stall. I'd even go a step further and designate "EV overflow stalls" very nearby, so that there is a convenient place for EV owners to park their car to wait, or for charged cars to move to to free up a charging space.