11498 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Just wait until gas taxes and municipal levies are attached to charging EV's, that'll raise a stink. Currently EV's are not paying a single cent towards road infrastructure and the myriad of pet projects gas taxes pay for. Expect a $15 per "tank" charge tacked on to your overnight charge in the near future.

 

This seems fair.  But let's be smart abut it.  And innovative.  Tack it onto the insurance premium once per year, but do it my miles driven.  You drive 20,000km in your electric car, pay X amount.  It's not easy to doctor your odometer in an electric car is it?

[LeoVictoria]

This seems fair.  But let's be smart abut it.  And innovative.  Tack it onto the insurance premium once per year, but do it my miles driven.  You drive 20,000km in your electric car, pay X amount.  It's not easy to doctor your odometer in an electric car is it?

 

Great.  Perfect opportunity to charge insurance by the mile as well.

[LeoVictoria]

Voluntary?  So if I do not "volunteer", I pay 7 cents at night, while you, who have volunteered, pay 5 cents?

 

Sounds like a sneaky way around their smart meter insistence that they would not move to ToD pricing.  Not that I mind ToD pricing.  It makes sense.

 

Where does this information come from?

 

BC Hydro presentation.  Key quotes:

"BC Hydro is removing barriers to EV adoption in B.C.

 

We will have an integrated customer EV experience, rates that support the adoption of EVs, are the public owner and operator of public charging infrastructure, have grid standards that support EV load, and codes, standards, and metering that eliminate barriers to EV adoption in all areas of B.C."

 

Also: 

 

"An EV specific rate should be available between fall 2016 and fall 2017, depending on approval from our regulator"

[Mike K.]

This seems fair.  But let's be smart abut it.  And innovative.  Tack it onto the insurance premium once per year, but do it my miles driven.  You drive 20,000km in your electric car, pay X amount.  It's not easy to doctor your odometer in an electric car is it?

 

The simplest way to go about is to charge like we do now with consumption-based gas taxes. There's no need to make it any more complicated than that.

[VicHockeyFan]

The simplest way to go about is to charge like we do now with consumption-based gas taxes. There's no need to make it any more complicated than that.

 

????

 

That's fine, but how are you going to tax my car charging separate from my clothes dryer or garberator (the real juice user in my home) usage?  I just get one electricity bill.  Unless you want to complicate that billing system.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 09 August 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[Mike K.]

Smartmeters identify what is consuming electricity and separating out a vehicle charge is just another line on the list of charges. Eventually our billing details will include a list of what's being used, when and how much juice it requires. That data is a little draconian for 2017 but it's data BC Hydro can already collect and present to the end-user if they so choose.

[VicHockeyFan]

Smartmeters identify what is consuming electricity and separating out a vehicle charge is just another line on the list of charges. Eventually our billing details will include a list of what's being used, when and how much juice it requires. That data is a little draconian for 2017 but it's data BC Hydro can already collect and present to the end-user if they so choose.

 

Your smart meter can not do that now.  That's impossible with your current smart meter.  It IS available with more sophisticated meters, but they still make errors.  

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 09 August 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[Mike K.]

The technology is called energy disaggregation. But I think you're right, that existing smart meters installed in BC by BC Hydro do not have energy disaggregation technology. But it's certainly available and you can bet it'll be rolled out in time for mass EV charging. It'll have to be in order to separate out EV charging and other usage.

[On the Level]

Smart meters themselves are not intended to do this, but they provide info that can.

 

I have a Rainforest Eagle connected to my smart meter.  You send the data to a third party and they can make that information usable.  I was using a company called Bidgley, who would use consumption signatures to detect different devices in the home.

 

The problem is that these companies offer their services free of charge for a year or two, then ask utility companies like BC Hydro to pay for ongoing use.  BCHydro so far has not done so, leaving you to try to find another provider.  I did receive notice from BCHydro that there is another provider I can use, but I haven't gotten around to re-configuring the Eagle to connect to it.  I don't know if the new provider offers to break out consumption to that level.  I'll reconfigure the device after the summer when I have more time and can report back.

 

Edit: - Looks like the device I have has been replaced with a "Eagle-200".  Other than an extra LED, it looks the same and doesn't explain what additional functionality the new version has.  I believe BCHydro can push new versions of firmware onto your smart meter dynamically.  The new version of the Eagle could be updated to pull additional information from the smart meter.

Edited by On the Level, 10 August 2017 - 05:46 AM.

[Mike K.]

Interesting. I had thought I had heard of people do things of this nature. Your info clarifies the situation.

[LeoVictoria]

 

https://www.bchydro....e2-Workshop.pdf

[North Shore]

^ Buncha screwing a$$holes!

 

'Voluntary' TOU?!  As if we have any choice, in Canada, in the winter, about using electricity after ~4 pm.  How the hell else am I supposed to keep my house lit? Whale oil lanterns?

 

'Meeting customer needs', my arse - this is all about covering the 'dividends' paid from BCH to the government, and the price paid to IPPs.

Edited by North Shore, 10 August 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[lanforod]

Since that pdf repeatly examines same revenue and balancing etc against current billing practices, the only benefit they seem to be pursuing is reduced load during peak times. 

 

By 'voluntary' though, the option is stick with the current billing, or move to TOU. Also would have a 1 year guarantee TOU billing would be same or less than two tiered flat rate (current system).

 

I don't like it - if I make an effort to shift load to lower peak times, I should have to pay less overall. BCH should get less revenue, not the same.

[LeoVictoria]

^ Buncha screwing a$$holes!

 

'Voluntary' TOU?!  As if we have any choice, in Canada, in the winter, about using electricity after ~4 pm.  How the hell else am I supposed to keep my house lit? Whale oil lanterns?

 

'Meeting customer needs', my arse - this is all about covering the 'dividends' paid from BCH to the government, and the price paid to IPPs.

 

Which part of the word voluntary did you not understand?

[LeoVictoria]

I don't like it - if I make an effort to shift load to lower peak times, I should have to pay less overall. BCH should get less revenue, not the same.

 

That is up to you.   You look at your power profile and see if you can shift load enough to have it work for you (and pay less).   If not, then you don't opt in.   Naturally BCH needs to make sure that the plan is revenue neutral if people don't change their behaviour.   It would be quite silly to have a TOU rate that is cheaper for everyone than the standard rate.   Costs still need to be covered.   Reducing revenue if the peak-shifting is effective is OK because that will delay required infrastructure upgrades.

Edited by LeoVictoria, 10 August 2017 - 03:00 PM.

[North Shore]

Which part of the word voluntary did you not understand?

 

Weren't income taxes a temporary measure to pay off WW 1?  (not that taxes are a bad thing)

First it was no TOU billing, then it's voluntary, and next...

[LJ]

Shouldn't they be giving us electricity for free, to wean us off fossil fuels, make us the greenest province in the land?

[lanforod]

Shouldn't they be giving us electricity for free, to wean us off fossil fuels, make us the greenest province in the land?

 

Thats the opposite of your typical type of comment

[LeoVictoria]

All electric vehicles on sale in the US compared.

[LeoVictoria]

And Tesla Model 3 vs competitive cars in its class.