143 replies to this topic

[aastra]

The little building should have been an easy pass. The shopping plaza development seemed to need work in many aspects (at least the version that we saw on here a while back).

[Bingo]

Sleepy little sea-side communities do much better with ice cream stands. 

 

The community also did much better as a prime picnic destination when the Galloping Goose rail car brought folks to the area.

[Nparker]

Cordova Bay has steadily gone downhill since losing its glorious architectural landmark: Fable Cottage. 

[DavidSchell]

If any counsel in the CRD needs to have set term limits it's Saanich, which of course is why they are so against.

 

Some of these younger ones are already becoming a tool for the NIMBY express ... what will they be like in 20 years??

[Sparky]

Also, Mods, should there be a separate thread for each development?

If one of them gets rolling, yes. Right now they are both just wishful thinking.

[Bingo]

If one of them gets rolling, yes. Right now they are both just wishful thinking.

 

I agree, but the others are still in bed...

[North Shore]

Ya'know - I was trundling off down Shelbourne a few Ams back to take the Shorelets to skool, and got to thinking about development and traffic, etc..  If Saanich pushes ahead with the 3 laneing of Shelb (and I think that they are going to do that) then it's going to become a very busy street indeed - almost to the point of gridlock, at rush hours.  Add in a few more new condo developments here and there, and it will get even busier.  More people in the parks, on the beaches, rec centres, etc..

 

Maybe the Cordovans just don't want that - they like their sleepy, drive-through seaside town the way it is, don't want the dilution of their property values, and would prefer Cordova Bay Road to be non-gridlocked..

[Keedan]

If one of them gets rolling, yes. Right now they are both just wishful thinking.

I don't see the plaza as wishful thinking at all. Its already zoned so nothing the neighbors can do. Its a DP area, so form and character is the only battle they have influence over. It will get built for sure; we just don't know what it will look like yet. 

[Mike K.]

Ya'know - I was trundling off down Shelbourne a few Ams back to take the Shorelets to skool, and got to thinking about development and traffic, etc..  If Saanich pushes ahead with the 3 laneing of Shelb (and I think that they are going to do that) then it's going to become a very busy street indeed - almost to the point of gridlock, at rush hours.  Add in a few more new condo developments here and there, and it will get even busier.  More people in the parks, on the beaches, rec centres, etc..

 

Maybe the Cordovans just don't want that - they like their sleepy, drive-through seaside town the way it is, don't want the dilution of their property values, and would prefer Cordova Bay Road to be non-gridlocked..

 

But then you have Aragon's project on the Trio site that will get the green light with its hundreds of units, as did Sayward Hill and Matticks Farm with its condos. 

 

To me, at least, it would appear that project approvals have more to do with alliances at City Hall than they do with a project. How is it that an even more conservative council than the current one approved Sayward Hill, Matticks Farm while the current one killed the Doumac concept and is causing strife for the strip mall redevelopment? It doesn't make sense. And then you've also got the Trio site that's moving through the municipal motions and will be passed.

[Bingo]

There was something to be said in an era when you could enjoy an outing along Beach Drive from Ogden Point to Cadboro Bay and beyond without encountering much more than a tea house.

You could also drive the length of Blenkinsop out to Cordova Bay encountering only farmland, a chicken ranch and McMorrans Beach House.

I think the new development planned for the gravel pit is far enough away to not change that feel, and I am not sure a supermarket is needed in Cordova Bay when we are so spoiled with plenty of other shopping areas in Victoria within a 15 minute drive.

[Nparker]

There was something to be said in an era when you could enjoy an outing along Beach Drive from Ogden Point to Cadboro Bay and beyond without encountering much more than a tea house...

As long as there was a stop to water the horses.

...I am not sure a supermarket is needed in Cordova Bay when we are so spoiled with plenty of other shopping areas in Victoria within a 15 minute drive...

Perhaps to encourage more locals to walk to get their groceries?

[spanky123]

If any counsel in the CRD needs to have set term limits it's Saanich, which of course is why they are so against.

 

Some of these younger ones are already becoming a tool for the NIMBY express ... what will they be like in 20 years??

I don't think that is the solution at all. What you are saying is that voters aren't intelligent enough to decide when someone is past their prime and I don't buy that.

 

Term limits are no different then voter reform. Those who lose elections lead the charge to change the system, those who are elected suddenly lose interest in that change.

[aastra]

 

There was something to be said in an era when you could enjoy an outing along Beach Drive from Ogden Point to Cadboro Bay and beyond without encountering much more than a tea house.

You could also drive the length of Blenkinsop out to Cordova Bay encountering only farmland, a chicken ranch and McMorrans Beach House.

 

Somewhere on the Internet there's an SOB who gives Victorians **** for worrying way too much about what people see while driving by in their cars.

 

In terms of lamenting the loss of the good ol' days, I think we're at least 30 years too late. The suburban neighbourhoods in Cordova Bay are 98% built out. The potential developments that we're stressing about in the year 2017 are like the chocolate sprinkles on top of the icing on top the cake. All of the big stuff has already happened. The massive transformation has already happened. These projects would be the finishing touches, really.

 

Discuss...

[Bingo]

Somewhere on the Internet there's an SOB who gives Victorians **** for worrying way too much about what people see while driving by in their cars.

 

In terms of lamenting the loss of the good ol' days, I think we're at least 30 years too late. The suburban neighbourhoods in Cordova Bay are 98% built out. The potential developments that we're stressing about in the year 2017 are like the chocolate sprinkles on top of the icing on top the cake. All of the big stuff has already happened. The massive transformation has already happened. These projects would be the finishing touches, really.

 

Discuss...

 

I tend to agree with you aastra, and like yourself I live for the controversial stuff.

[johnk]

Ah, the good old days! Just like everwhere else. I remember a taxi driver in Rome saying, "You shoulda seen it 2000 years ago, it was really something!"

[aastra]

Hadn't seen this image before:

http://www.vicnews.c...ay-development/

 

 

Cordova Bay cannot start to resemble Downtown Victoria with its glass facade...

 

You know, I want to mention this because it's the umpteenth time that we've seen this sort of thing. People will try to substantiate opposition to neighbourhood projects by claiming that neighbourhood projects will turn [insert neighbourhood here] into a copy of downtown (and, as everyone knows, downtown is the most contemptible place imaginable).

 

First point: You've got a big logical problem with this sort of thinking. How can neighbourhood-style / neighbourhood-scale developments possibly have the potential to turn neighbourhoods into copies of downtown? It doesn't make any sense on its face.

 

Second point: Why the heck is downtown even being introduced into the conversation? If you're playing the too big & too slick card then why not mention Sayward Hill? It's right up the road. Why not mention Mattick's Farm and the golf course condo buildings? In other words, why not mention some neighbourhood developments?

 

Suffice it to say, I think everyone understands that neighbourhood-style / neighbourhood-scale developments can't turn a neighbourhood into a copy of downtown. And I think the reason why critics refer to downtown instead of to other neighourhood-style / neighbourhood-scale developments is because downtown is scary and neighbourhood-style / neighbourhood-scale developments aren't.

 

Just try to get your head around that. People like neighbourhood-style / neighbourhood-scale developments. Thus, critics can't refer to neighbourhood-style / neighbourhood-scale developments, because it would weaken their case for opposition. So critics refer to downtown instead, and everyone gasps in horror. Even though downtown has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to a small shopping centre redevelopment in Cordova Bay.

Edited by aastra, 22 October 2017 - 07:53 PM.

[DavidSchell]

I don't think that is the solution at all. What you are saying is that voters aren't intelligent enough to decide when someone is past their prime and I don't buy that.

 

 

I would like to think you are 100% correct, but voter intelligent does not come into play for every candidate that is chosen at the municipal level.

 

With so many on the ballot and so many seats up for grabs, it often comes down to name recognition, which is why so many become career counselors and why having a 3 term limit makes sense to me.

 

I myself being a older voter, would love to see more young people involved in politics at the local level, but it is so difficult for anyone to unseat the existing counselors that everyone knows ... I hate to think our local politics really is about winning a popularity contest, but I feel by and large that is what it is.

[Bingo]

So critics refer to downtown instead, and everyone gasps in horror.

 

That's right, why not say we are going "to town" but NO we all say we are going downtown when in fact town may be up a hill, but No we are going DOWN as if to the center of the earth.

No wonder everyone gasps in horror, and it isn't even Halloween.

[Nparker]

...With so many on the ballot and so many seats up for grabs, it often comes down to name recognition, which is why so many become career counselors..

This. There can be no other reasonable explanation for Pam Madoff's frightfully long tenure - 24 years!!! 

[van-island]

Ya'know - I was trundling off down Shelbourne a few Ams back to take the Shorelets to skool, and got to thinking about development and traffic, etc..  If Saanich pushes ahead with the 3 laneing of Shelb (and I think that they are going to do that) then it's going to become a very busy street indeed - almost to the point of gridlock, at rush hours.  Add in a few more new condo developments here and there, and it will get even busier.  More people in the parks, on the beaches, rec centres, etc..

 

Maybe the Cordovans just don't want that - they like their sleepy, drive-through seaside town the way it is, don't want the dilution of their property values, and would prefer Cordova Bay Road to be non-gridlocked..

 

That's what happens when you try to develop in the same way Langford has... when you build condos into an environment of car dependence without paying any attention to the public space around them (i.e. allowing the car culture to continue to thrive) then sure you'll get traffic nightmares.

 

What Saanich is only beginning to grasp is that if you approve multi-family developments that claim a high degree of walkability, you only get a high degree of walkability if you change the public realm in lockstep with those approvals. People won't walk along traffic sewers like Shelbourne and Mckenzie, even if it is politically easier to approve developments there (because the traffic has already destroyed the single-family property values). Perhaps the reason these developments are having so much pushback in Cordova Bay is that Saanich is unable to articulate a comprehensive vision for the area to go along with these approvals (aka actually get on with the LAP revision process which is decades overdue).

 

Curious why you think that property values would be diluted though?  Typically when condos are introduced into high-end residential areas the single-family stock increases in value due to speculation and the perception that it has become a luxury item. I'm disappointed that you are playing the tired old card that multi-family development somehow devalues adjacent properties, when in a retirement destination like Cordova Bay, the opposite will likely be true.