1835 replies to this topic

[gumgum]

I walked by there today and was reminded that there's an second level of apartments above.

[Holden West]

1950:

[gumgum]

Cool find!
I always assumed that was an eighties building. Looked much nicer back then.

[amor de cosmos]

REAL ESTATE

Our house is a very, very, very rich house
Scrimping for a place to live takes on a new meaning in Victoria, where prices are through the roof

JUSTINE HUNTER
Globe and Mail
August 4, 2007

VICTORIA -- When agent Robert Milloy listed two "trophy" properties in Victoria this week for record prices, he took the lead in a stampede by his competitors to tap into an elite international market.

"They are coming for all the things we take for granted: Clean air, a stunning environment, safe streets," said Mr. Milloy, of Sotheby's International Realty Canada. "In the world market, these are perceived as exceptional value."

In recent weeks, more than half a dozen homes with asking prices in excess of $10-million have hit the market in Victoria, each one more expensive than the last listing. The listings are being marketed in places such as London and Los Angeles, the prices listed in euros and U.S. dollars.

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070804.BCHOMES04/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia/:4dd78]More>>>[/url:4dd78]

there's no way they'll get that much for those houses. The most that a house in the Victoria area has ever sold for was about $10,500,000, which in that case was just under $1000/sqft. Villa Madrona on Land's End Rd is comparable to the Sweet Pea & it went on the market for close to $20 million & has been reduced many times since then. (it's also a nicer house imho) That house across the road from the Sweet Pea which sticks out into Cadboro Bay is on 1.75 acres & 10,000 sqft; last year it sold for $9,500,000. That Swanwick Ranch (the one in Metchosin) is going for more than $3000/sqft & requires no further comment, even though it's on 64 acres & won an architecture award when it was completed.

[Holden West]

The Chapters building is for sale. Did you know it was built in 1960?

[G-Man]

Its the old woodwards isn't it?

[aastra]

Methinks you're thinking of Woolworth's.

As much as I might have preferred the original buildings on this block, I have to admit they ultimately did a good job with that one. Now if only somebody would spruce up the Shoppers Drug Mart...

[G-Man]

I agree I would to see that back to its orignal oops 4 storey height from the 1800s.

[Holden West]

Note the date:

VANCOUVER'S ISLAND.

December 26, 1853, Wednesday
The New York Times
Page 2, 220 words

The term (five years) for which Vancouver's Island was granted to the Hudson's Bay Company being about to expire, a majority of the white settlers have petitioned the British Parliament to take the Island under its special management, instead of giving the reins of government into the hands of a Hudson's Bay factor, as heretofore. In their memorial to Parliament, they say: "The attempt at colonizing Vancouver's Island may, so far, be considered as a failure -- one principal cause of which is the high price charged for land, while in Oregon but a few miles distant, (and that distance daily traversed in ca???? and open boats) the United States Government makes liberal gratuitous grants to actual settlers. British subjects have come to the Island, from California and elsewhere, with the intention of settling; but on arriving and learning the actual condition of the colony, have been deterred by the high price of land, and by the ???est hopelessness of its settlement within any reasonable period, owing the this and other similar administrative causes and not by any means to any defect in its soil, climate, or other natural properties. Consequently, under these discouraging circumstances, they have gone southward, and increased the population of Oregon.

Copyright © The New York Times

[Phil McAvity]

^Over 150 years later and things are the same.

[Ms. B. Havin]

@ Phil: no kidding, we're still kicking and screaming against population increases here, yet even Frederick the Great in the 18th century was able to observe (and draw conclusions from) the fact that sparsely populated Russia was a hell hole of poverty while densely populated Holland was politically progressive and rich, because the far greater number of persons living densely together promoted the development of trade and industry and manufacture and business (and accompanying political liberties). Russia, meanwhile, tried to "get ahead" with feudalism (a tad worse even than colonialism), its population occasionally decimated by starvation, emigration, whims of cossacks, whatever. More people meant a happier Holland -- but on Vancouver Island, that Dutch model is still a dirty idea.

[jklymak]

^ Are you trying to say that Victoria discourages immigration in some way? How? Is it really a shortage of development?

I'm all for density, but there has to be a reason for a large population. The reason Holland became prosperous is the same reason Vancouver or San Francisco are prosperous - they are major ports feeding a large inland population (by river or rail). I don't think Victoria (or Archangel) have much of a chance to become rich in that way.

[G-Man]

Well that is part of the problem. People who live here all assume Victoria is a backwater and that if it weren't for our horse carriage rides and aptitude for pruning, no one would ever come here.

The reality is that Victoria is now facing a 2.9 percent unemployment rate and we need people here now.

Victoria is a diverse economy that includes: High tech, tourism, education/research, resource extraction, government, manufacturing, fishing, aerospace.

While it may not be on the same level as Toronto, Vancouver etc...

And yes we do discourage immigration though it is mostly done through our own perception of ourselves.

[Holden West]

Note that in 1853, Oregon territory went right up to the 49th Parallel.

[Nparker]

And yes we do discourage immigration though it is mostly done through our own perception of ourselves.

That may be one of the truest statements I have ever heard about our little city.

[jklymak]

In what ways do we discourage immigration? How can it change?

I'm not at all convinced that the reason Victoria is not a regional economic powerhouse has a lot to do with a small-minded attitude of the residents, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

[G-Man]

I truly think that is part of it.

Another is the way we market ourselves. ( sleepy british tourist town by the sea where it is perpetually spring). This leads to those that consider Victoria for relocation be disapointed once they are here. Just look thought the letters to the editor that are always saying that Victoria has too many tall building I moved to Victoria to get away from tall building. etc etc.

Another part is that as a large number of independant munis we compete between ourselves rather than marketing ourselves as one product. So we dilute our ability to penetrate markets further afield to recruit and encourage in-migration.

[Nparker]

I couldn't agree with you more G-Man. Victoria needs an attitude adjustment as much as it needs proportionate infrastructure funding (more like 16% of what Vancouver receives instead of about 5%, based purely on comparative populations - As you can see I am still bummed about today's "HUGE" transit funding announcement).

We have to stop thinking of ourselves as a sleepy backwater if we ever want to be taken seriously.

[Ms. B. Havin]

Victoria certainly does a lot to discourage business "immigration." From what people in various fields tell me, it can be punitive to start a business here, nor do we offer enough in venture capital sources -- businesses that really have some sort of vision and need funding end up getting VC$$ from the US. Victoria businesses, from what I understand, are also property taxed at a really high rate compared to the residential property taxes. All of this contributes to creating a retirement "haven" of sorts, but does little to encourage market enterprise & innovation. Which means that we might not be discouraging "immigration" from people who just want to retire or even people who'll settle into some kind of service job, but we're not doing enough to encourage immigration from people who want to do business/ build products/ build a brand. That criticism stands for Canada, incidentally -- and I don't have the links to hand, but the Conference Board of Canada would back me up here.

PS: people who come here just to retire or perhaps to enjoy a "resort" "lifestyle" or whatever it's marketed as (and Vancouver has some of those issues, too) represent (IMO) dead money. Their dollars go into the local economy at the consumption level, but once they've bought and stocked their condos with all the necessary tchotchkes, that's it -- the rest of their assets are dead to the community. And if they're really well-off, they're more likely to endow a library wing or something like that in the city the came from, than to do so for any of Greater Victoria's institutions.

I am absolutely thrilled that there are more entrepreneurs in Victoria now, and that they are making their mark in high tech, biotech, green tech, you name it -- and I really hope that we'll grow a whole crop of folks like that, who will feel committed to this place, and who'll give back in important ways. But it's early days here still.

[jklymak]

Victoria's property taxes are almost identical to Vancouvers (a bit lower) and Seattle's. Our residential taxes are much lower than in the US, buts thats because they pay for education with local property taxes rather than State funds. VC will go where there is a good idea. I don't think they care if you are in Victoria, Bella Coola, or San Francisco if you'll make them money. its not like Victoria doesn't have nice hotels, bars and restaurants for their site visits.

I'm not saying you guys haven't gotten your impression somewhere. Clearly you seem frustrated by a small town attitude here. But I don't see that attitude reflected in anything substantive that would discourage business. Conversely, I think lots light and information-based business would like it here: beautiful city, lots to do.

The biggest problem is that its kind of slow for a bright 20 something, and so they go to bigger cities, where the new ideas are germinated (I left when I was 20-something). Maybe if Victoria wants to do something to encourage innovation, it should work on making this a hipper place to live. Vibrant arts, more basic research, a better nightlife downtown... I do see substantive things the city does that discourage this.

Amalgamation is a good point too. So much could be simplified if there were three cities instead of 23 or however many there are now.