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Sewage treatment in Victoria


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Poll: What do you think of the report $1.2 billion Dollar sewage treatment cost. (23 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think of the report $1.2 billion Dollar sewage treatment cost.

  1. We need it and waited too long that is the cost of waiting too long! (46 votes [20.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.63%

  2. Local, Provincial, and Federal politicians will find a way to help cut down the price to property owners. (2 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

  3. Out of the question, too expensive for Greater Victoria. (103 votes [46.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.19%

  4. It expensive, but if we do nothing costs will only rise. (14 votes [6.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.28%

  5. We need to do it but greatly scale back the project. It has grwon out of hand. (27 votes [12.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.11%

  6. No opinion, I do not know enough about the project to say of the costs are out of line or not. (31 votes [13.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.90%

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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 05:37 PM

We haven't talked about this yet?

I think it's a collosal waste of money going for treatment, but I'm tired of the argument for and against.
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#2 Carewser

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 01:55 AM

^ If you're sick of talking about it, why did you start a thread on it?

Weird.

I guess i will reply for everyone else's benefit then.

Anyway, you're absolutely right it's a total waste of money but people in this city are too stupid to care about what a bunch of scientists have repeatedly said about the issue-that it is completely unecessary. The municipal politicians certainly have neither the balls nor the brains to do the right thing either and say no to this thing. God i miss common sense. Even Robin Adair (who i thought was a bright guy) proved me wrong by speaking out in favour of this thing. Neither he nor Allan Lowe would talk to me about it when i e-mailed them. For some reason science isn't that important to them, which strikes me as incredibly Bloody strange..

#3 Scaper

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 02:15 AM

^language check!

#4 Carewser

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 04:24 AM

Since we are all adults here i figured i could throw in a swear word for emphasis, but i guess not. Or is it just your delicate sensibilities i am offending Scaper?

#5 Holden West

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 12:04 PM

I thank Carewser for bringing us one of the many opinions on this matter--even though it dates from the last century. It's important when evaluating an issue to remember how some people felt about it at earlier times.

Where Carew errs is assuming scientists actually feel this way today. The fact is, scientists disagree on the effectiveness of treatment. Indeed, they disagree on the many issues surrounding treatment. There are few agreed upon standards for measuring contamination. The safety paramaters are outdated in many cases. Many of the most harmful discharge components aren't even included in the checklist--somewhat like searching for speeders using a radar gun that only goes up to 50 kph.

How can scientists claim treatment is "completely unnecessary" when they haven't even tried measuring the crucial data?

Here are some ACTUAL concerns voiced by the scientific community:

-What happens to the sludge that results from sewage treatment?

-Current popular sewage treatment uses technology several decades old. What new treatments coming on line do the job cheaper and better? We can look to Honolulu for guidance here.

-Would treatment keep the most problematic chemicals out of the water--components that potentially cause the most damage?

Scientists (with the exception of a few disrespected extremists) agree that the present system of discharging raw sewage into the strait is unsustainable considering the massive increase in population forecast for the CRD.

Bottom line? Uncertainty over health risks; uncertainty over treatment options and effectiveness.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#6 Mike K.

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 12:25 PM

And with all that uncertainly tax payers will still foot the $500+ million bill because politicians will be held hostage by paranoid voters.

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#7 DelsterX

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 07:26 AM

This topic stinks!

#8 G-Man

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 07:38 AM

The one topic that always embarasses me when talking to visitors is our dumping of raw sewage into the strait. If we had kept up to other cities in the world for the last 50 years we would not have a 500 million dollar problem but that is what happens.

If you saw that drip coming into your kitchen and said it is just a drip, 40 years later it is going to cost a hell of a lot more money to fix it than if it had been done when the problem first came up.

Sure it is going to cost us money but it has to be done. So we just better get used to the idea.
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#9 Scaper

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 02:56 PM

I look at it like swimming in Elk Lake. When you see all the geese and kids and people in there that are peeing and doing other things in that lake. I don't even like to think of swimming in there. You multiply that and you have almost 400,000 people dumping their poo in the straight! I don't know the science but it doesn't sit well with me. If I ever catch a two headed fish by the outflow, that's the day I think I won't fish in the ocean either. hahahaha

#10 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 04:22 PM

The idea of fishing is kind of rude too. Who knows what that wild fish ate. You wouldn't normally hunt wild pig or cattle and eat it. Farmed fish, now I know what they are eating (their own **** and pellets). Free-range chickens eat a high percentage of their own **** too.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with human feces in the strait. Its the chemicals and pharmaceutivcals that are bad.
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#11 DelsterX

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 07:56 AM

"Oh. It's just horse manure (huh huh - laughs, he points back at the horse that walked by) Horse manure's not that bad. I don't even mind the word “manure.” You know, it's, it's “nure,” which is good. and a “ma” in front of it. MA-NURE. When you consider the other choices, “manure” is actually pretty refreshing. - George Castanza

Yah so isn't poo an organic thing? Thats got to be worth something with the organic craze and all. If you just get somthing to skim off all the chemicals. It could be called "cutting the crap" process. Then we would be laughing because hey! -we would also composting which is also good.

#12 Holden West

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 09:10 AM

Always count on George to charm his dates with amazing facts. I've learned a lot from him. :?

I mentioned this on SsP a while ago.

I envisage ten years from now--the half billion dollar sewage treatment centre is built and has just been activated. The megalitres of deadly chemicals have been skimmed off and concentrated into a single test tube. The technician picks it up--frowns--looks around--shrugs his shoulders--and pours it down the drain.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#13 Nomad

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 07:10 AM

Well I am new here and have just browsed this thread. That said, Anyone who thinks we dont need treatment really doesnt understand the issue what so ever. Farmed fish are better than wild? I really hoped I missed the sarcasm here. I'll come back later and throw some facts at you when I'm not working. Nice to see the topic at least has interest.

#14 G-Man

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:04 AM

Hi Nomad,

Welcome aboard. I for one am all for sewage treatment plant.

I was thinking a good spot for the tanks would be Turkey Head Walk in Oak Bay.
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#15 Holden West

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:08 AM

Would the proposed plant not simply replace the current underground facility at Clover Point?

Although we probably should build something in Oak Bay just to annoy them.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#16 G-Man

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:19 AM

That is why I suggested it.
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#17 DelsterX

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:30 AM

A treatment plant would need way more room than that. Look at how much area Richmond's treatment plant takes up. Roughly 600 ft by 1000 ft

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#18 Galvanized

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:42 AM

Farmed fish


:smt078
Don't forget about those fish escaping into the wild and spreading sea lice! BTW, welcome to the forum Nomad!



As for the facility, I thought McCauley point was the prefered location. But then again didn't Esquimalt banish all treatment options from thier municipality? Gotta love the regional planning process!
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#19 DelsterX

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:16 PM

Sewage solution right here

By Brennan Clarke
Victoria News
Aug 25 2006

If it works on cruise ships it can work in Greater Victoria, company officials say

Now that Environment Minister Barry Penner has ordered the Capital Regional District to develop a sewage treatment plan, one of the key questions is what kind of technology would best serve the region's sewage treatment needs.

Hydroxyl Systems Inc. thinks it has the answer.

Officials with the Victoria company, which specializes in wastewater treatment systems used on cruise ships, said Hydroxyl's plastic honeycomb technology could easily form the backbone of a future sewage treatment plant in Victoria.

"We are not only interested, this technology's ideal for this city to install," said Hydroxyl marketing manager Brodie Guy.

Hydroxyl's wastewater systems use polyurethane "honeycombs" that invite concentrations of naturally occurring bacteria, speeding up the bio-degradation of pollutants in liquefied sewage.

"It's the same natural process that occurs in wetlands," Guy said. "For disinfection we use ultraviolet light. Then it can be released into the ocean."

Hydroxyl's technology belongs to a category of sewage treatment known as "activated sludge systems." The systems provide secondary treatment, the minimum level mandated by the provincial Environment Ministry.

Hydroxyl this week announced a $9.2-million contract with Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines to install its wastewater treatment systems in four of that company's vessels.

It's the second such contract for Hydroxyl this year, following a $6-million deal with Royal Caribbean that was announced in January.

Hydroxyl's cruise ship units are about the size of the average automobile once the exterior fans and heating apparatus are installed.

A region the size of Greater Victoria would require a series of larger units, but Guy said they have the advantage of taking up less space than conventional treatment systems.

Given the high price of acquiring land for a treatment facility, a space-saving option could potentially save money for local taxpayers, he said

Richard Smyth, co-owner of Sanitherm Engineering, a supplier of sewage treatment equipment based in North Vancouver, said Hydroxyl will face stiff competition from international firms, some which are much bigger and offer similar technology.

"A project of this magnitude is going to attract just about everyone around the world," he said.

One of the priciest but most effective options is membrane technology - ultra-fine filters that remove all but the most minute particles of organic matter from wastewater.

"We have membranes where the screens are .08 microns. They won't take out viruses or bacteria but if you look at it beside a glass of tap water you wouldn't be able to tell the difference," Smyth said.

Viruses and bacteria can be eliminated by exposing the water to ultra-violet light, a relatively new and inexpensive technology. But Smyth said that's probably more treatment than Victoria needs, since the treated wastewater will be emptied into the ocean where freshwater bacteria and viruses have trouble surviving.

"The standards are different if you're discharging into a pristine, salmon-bearing stream," he said.

While it's more expensive, a treatment plant using membrane technology requires less land to operate, an issue that is sure to generate controversy as Victoria-area politicians try to find a suitable location for one or more facilities.

Different types of systems generate varying amounts of sludge. Since it costs money to treat and dispose of the sludge, local officials will have to grapple with the sludge quotient of any system they consider, Smyth added.

Brodie said Hydroxyl's systems require less maintenance than membrane technology that requires regular cleaning.

The CRD board of directors gathered Wednesday to evaluate and "disseminate" a recent report on the future of sewage treatment.

Penner has given the CRD until June 30 to develop a comprehensive sewage treatment plan for the region.

#20 Mike K.

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:23 PM

I think the killer of the Hydroxl idea might be it's "secondary level" of treatment. I think the CRD is gunning for primary treatment, no?

I just really, really hope Victoria or Esquimalt aren't stuck with providing the land for this. I'm fully in support of Esquimalt already backing out of any discussions on using its land. It's time for the rest of the region to pick up the slack and take the weight off of the central core as it already provides more than its fair share of regional services (especially social services that absolutely frighten every other muni).

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July 15, 2014: [Mayor] Fortin told C-FAX's Bruce Williams that he expects the [Johnson Street Bridge] project to be completed "on time and on budget."


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