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Amalgamation of Victoria municipalities


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#1601 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:24 AM

I typically like CD Howe, can't say I'm a fan of their stance on this.  Here's a mind exercise - do any large cities decide to become much smaller ones because the economics make sense?  In short, is de-amalgamation a thing with positive benefits?  It would be foolish for Victoria to become James Bay, Fairfield, Fernwood, Vic West, and Oaklands - each with their own police/fire forces and mayors, etc. - yet we seem to think Esquimalt, Victoria, Saanich and Oak Bay should all continue to stand on their own, despite being regionally integrated in so many ways.  There are too many problems that cross too many arbitrary borders and too many slightly different sets of rules.  Increased cooperation doesn't quite get there.


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#1602 Nparker

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:27 AM

Damn AJ, I hope you're available to run for municipal government at some point in the future. I want to cast my vote for you now.  :)


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#1603 rjag

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:34 AM

Juno, you should join the local FB page Local Governance 2.0, its an eye opener the intransigence and denial that takes place with some of the local politicians surrounding this topic. 


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#1604 SusanJones

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:49 AM

Juno, you should join the local FB page Local Governance 2.0, its an eye opener the intransigence and denial that takes place with some of the local politicians surrounding this topic. 

MY OPINION:

Warning: if you do decide to engage but do not subscribe to the group-think you will be drawn and quartered.  

The pile-on by the politicians themselves and their few supporters, who are fighting an amalgamation study tooth & nail is very disturbing. 


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#1605 rjag

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:50 AM

yup, its a great study on the human condition commonly known as 'denial'


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#1606 SusanJones

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:32 AM

http://sooke.pocketn...d-close-mouths/

 

OPINION: Mayors should open ears and close mouths ...." There is clearly a disconnect between taxpayers and the level of government branded as being “the closest to the people.” Residents feel they are not being heard, or that their priorities are not being reflected by their leaders."

 

....." create environments that spark real discussion — and do them in places and times where everyday taxpayers will be. Community events, shopping areas, festivals, kids’ sports: there are dozens of opportunities every week to go and get a good feel for what the public is saying and feeling. "

 

....." leaders have a responsibility to resist their own cynicism and scratch beneath the surface to hear what people — even those who are opposed — are saying. What is the core concern driving the speaker? Is it affordability? Safety? Mayors should ask genuine questions of people, and actually listen to their responses.

No elected official is ever going to be perfectly in sync with voters on every issue. But turning around the growing disconnect between B.C. city halls and the taxpayers they serve needs to be a top priority for every mayor and councillor."


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#1607 Nparker

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:50 AM

...No elected official is ever going to be perfectly in sync with voters on every issue. But turning around the growing disconnect between B.C. city halls and the taxpayers they serve needs to be a top priority for every mayor and councillor."

The CoV mayor and council need to seriously ask themselves if they are truly serving the needs of their taxpayers or following their own personal agenda, not just in regards to amalgamation, but on a whole host of other issues as well.


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#1608 rjag

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:39 AM

The CoV mayor and council need to seriously ask themselves if they are truly serving the needs of their taxpayers or following their own personal agenda, not just in regards to amalgamation, but on a whole host of other issues as well.

 

Unfortunately, even though I think you are correct, I dont think they really care. They feel they have been given a mandate by the voters and confuse this with their personal belief system. Normally there is a balance on councils like this, to counter the more bizarre of ideas.....just not feeling that the calmer heads on council have the tools to control it



#1609 Bingo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:00 PM

Unfortunately, even though I think you are correct, I dont think they really care. They feel they have been given a mandate by the voters and confuse this with their personal belief system. Normally there is a balance on councils like this, to counter the more bizarre of ideas.....just not feeling that the calmer heads on council have the tools to control it

 

The Johnson Street Bridge replacement for instance.



#1610 Nparker

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:20 PM

Unfortunately, even though I think you are correct, I dont think they really care. They feel they have been given a mandate by the voters and confuse this with their personal belief system...

Alas, I think this is very true.  :whyme:


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#1611 Hotel Mike

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 01:19 PM

Yes rjag and Nparker...all too true. And that's why the term Social Justice Warrior is actually very accurate. Their personal belief system is for everyone, and they are happy enough to make rules to enforce it. 


Don't be so sure.:cool:

#1612 SusanJones

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 06:57 PM

Re: BC Government Capital Integrated Services and Governance Initiative 

http://news.yyjchat.ca/#!headlines



#1613 On the Level

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 07:47 PM

Well written.  What isn't well written are the comments in reply to this by local politicians and their supporters - see Facebook, real eyeopener.

How not to engage and how too discourage youth 101.  

http://www.timescolo...ebate-1.3579256

Isabella Gudgeon: Report adds little to amalgamation debate Isabella Gudgeon / Times Colonist

DECEMBER 2, 2016 12:49 AM

- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.ALuNbMMA.dpuf

 

The C.D. Howe Institute recently weighed in on the Capital Regional District’s long-standing amalgamation conversation with its new publication, Thinking Regionally: How to Improve Service Delivery in Canada’s Cities. It rejects amalgamation in favour of increased voluntary “inter-municipal co-operation.”

But although an anticipated game-changer in the debate, the Ontario-based paper ultimately boils down to a set of weak suggestions that sound charming, but lack teeth.

The conversation surrounding this regional structure is a deeply complex one, involving questions on both sides of not only economic efficiency, but also identity, democratic equity and financial fairness.

The report, on the other hand, is extremely simplistic. Between lovely sounding buzzwords and vast generalizations, its only real takeaway is the highly enlightened idea that “everyone needs to work together.”

 

Wow....talk about a grossly slanted review of the C.D. Howe report.  Universities have conducted studies trying to understand why Amalgamation costs more.  CD Howe released another report last year reviewing the connection between size and in--efficiency. It's not like this is a surprise.

 

Amalgamation is going to increase our taxes, so the real question is what we'll get from that extra expenditure.  


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#1614 On the Level

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:25 PM

So how would you like to amalgamate with us and share in the costs? Your tax increase will be negligible, in fact so negligible we will even provide the kleenex.

 

I think there is some real truth in this.  Other municipalities have worked very hard to establish infrastructure and services for their residents.   Did the CoV help pay for the North Langford Rec Centre? No.  What about the new YMCA centre?  No. What about View Royal's Firehall?  No.  Does the CoV share any of the commercial revenue that they enjoy?  No.  

 

CoV infrastructure has had decades of neglect and there doesn't appear to be a long term financial plan in place.  What happened to all of the commercial revenue that the CoV received the past 40 years?  It doesn't appear to have been used to maintain city infrastructure.

 

Citizens in other areas are going to become financially responsible for the CoV. Either taxes will go up, or more likely, funds will be diverted from local neighbourhoods and spent in the downtown core.


Edited by On the Level, 04 December 2016 - 09:26 PM.

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#1615 SusanJones

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 05:43 AM

A study on Amalgamation, a study completed by unbiased professionals would answer many of the questions raised here and elsewhere.  A study is what residents across the region have continually requested for the past 3 years.  


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#1616 Mike K.

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:56 PM

We already know the results of the study. The final report will be extremely critical of such a fractured region and will expose the financial implications of 13 mayors, fire chiefs and heads of public works (et al). It will also expose how our fractured region has cost business and residents, and how so much of our monies are being wasted due to duplication, overlapping services and the silo mentality.


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#1617 SusanJones

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:34 PM

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (December 8, 2016)

BC Government conducts flawed consultation, errors in facts on survey

The BC Government Capital Integrated Services and Governance Initiative (CISGI) project has recently published documents and a survey for public input. The project identifies this as one further step in a study for the Provincial government. The published information is clear that the study focuses on integration and is not an amalgamation study.

We were very disappointed in the scope of the study when it was first announced and now we are additionally concerned about the accuracy and type of information contained in recently posted documents online as well as the nature of the survey for public input,stated John Vickers of Amalgamation Yes. “The public needs accurate and robust information if it is expected to comment on governance in this area. What is posted is neither!

If the purpose of CISGI is to inform the Minister, elected officials and the public, then Amalgamation Yes feels obligated to ensure that the current set of Fact Sheets are accurate. Consequently, we have reviewed the data posted and conveyed a response to the Province's consultants to correct errors, omissions and more comprehensively describe the status of service delivery in our region.  

 

more at http://www.amalgamat...nsultation.html

 

From the research the team from Amalgamation Yes conducted (link below)

......"In assessing the cost figures from each Fact Sheet it seems there may be some errors in identifying who pays how much for what service as it relates to those municipal expenditures funded by a property tax and reported on the municipal Statement of Financial Information (SOFI) reports. It appears that costs recorded on some your sheets may not include the costs paid by taxpayers as identified on property tax notices as “CRD Requisitions”......"

 

"3. We have general concern that many of the Fact Sheets start with an overview of the role of the CRD and too often the text implies leadership and responsibility that is not warranted. You under- 2 stand regional districts in BC can only participate in and deliver delegated services with funding approved by one or more of its partners. And in our region, there are few services assigned to the mandate of the CRD, other than the numerous roles they play to represent interests of residents of unorganized areas. The combined effect of the Fact Sheets is that they present an enhanced regional role for the CRD that is not factual......"

 

There is plenty more like the above here http://www.amalgamat...ess_release.pdf.  

 

I was urged to complete the survey by my municipality, and other municipalities.  I waded through the 'fact sheets' noted and it was a slog.  City of Victoria put out a press release that the information concerning Victoria provided was not correct, the City staff had identified issues.  No other municipality staff pointed out errors, or made any such statement - one could assume then all their information was accurate - well it clearly isn't.  

 

I'm not sure where we go from here with this survey that nobody asked for.   Perhaps we should just get on with a study about/on amalgamation specific to the Greater Victoria Region and conducted by experts who've no demonstrated bias against/for amalgamation.  


Edited by SusanJones, 08 December 2016 - 06:38 PM.

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#1618 SusanJones

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 08:40 AM

Donald Roughley / Times Colonist  DECEMBER 11, 2016  See entire article here:

http://www.timescolo...study-1.4191189

 

".....Perhaps we will need to raise more clearly our public voice in the next provincial election concerning this government’s disrespectful attitude toward our wanting a study done of the benefits and disbenefits of amalgamation, and as soon as possible.

Donald Roughley has served as city manager in Victoria and in the Ontario cities of Waterloo and Scarborough. "

See entire article here:

http://www.timescolo...study-1.4191189

 

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#1619 Nparker

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 09:04 AM

I think this is undeniable

...So how has it come to pass that the premier has appointed Fassbender the community minister when the previous minister pledged to the local municipalities that her ministry would undertake an amalgamation study? We can only conclude that the premier appointed Fassbender because he has shown in the past his opposition to amalgamation...


- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.PyFwYntZ.dpuf

 



#1620 SusanJones

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:51 AM

(posting this because it highlights issues with deciding to amalgamate or not and WHO is doing the deciding) 

 

B.C. real estate boards reject amalgamation

An attempt to create a new association called Realtors of B.C. by amalgamating six regional real estate boards has failed.

Although a majority of real estate agents in Greater Vancouver, Okanagan, Kamloops and Northern B.C. voted to support an amalgamation with the B.C. Real Estate Association, only three of those groups met the legal minimum to change their bylaws. In order to pass, four boards had to vote in favour.

"....“It would have meant a combination of resources making it easier for us to invest in consumer-facing services and deliver services to realtors across the province,” Horn said.

 

“Had it gone through, there would have been annual cost savings of nearly $10 million for the six voting boards. If the full 11 boards had voted and approved the plan, the cost savings would have been closer to $11.3 million.”

Members also disliked the idea that the Victoria board’s offices and building would have been liquidated, their staff laid off and their contingency fund sent to the new association. “They haven’t provided us with enough information to justify this. We didn’t want to lose our board,” Nugent said.

Horn said while she was disappointed with the failed vote, it clearly showed a majority of real estate agents support proposed changes.

- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.8qx0CQXc.dpuf



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