2247 replies to this topic

[On the Level]

The Highlands is the epitome of over-governance that dominates our region. It is absurd to have an entire level of government to manage the affairs of 2000 people.

Size...and the distance from Victoria.  Beyond that, then what?  Every region of 2,000 people can't have governance and a say?  Spend their tax dollars on the support of their own families?

 

What are city residents expecting their obligations are to these families after Amalgamation?  

Edited by On the Level, 19 October 2017 - 11:12 PM.

[Nparker]

Size...and the distance from Victoria...Every region of 2,000 people can't have governance and a say? ...

It is not especially distant from Langford to which it should logically be part.

If EVERY region of 2000 people should have a say, that means my neighbourhood of North Park should have 1.5 mayors and at least 10 councillors if I am to be treated to the same level of governance as the Highlands. How about the 6 mayors of Fairfield and the 6 mayors of James Bay collecting $50k+ salaries to manage their collective 24,000 residents? Where does fair representation stop?

[lanforod]

I get their argument though. If part of Langford, they would not get fair representation at all. They'd be an afterthough pretty much part of any municipality here, except maybe Metchosin.

[rjag]

I get their argument though. If part of Langford, they would not get fair representation at all. They'd be an afterthough pretty much part of any municipality here, except maybe Metchosin.

 

So what sets them apart from the fine folks in Fairfield, James Bay, Fernwood, Henderson or Cadboro Bay or Blenkinsop Valley? They would receive the same level of service as other citizens in the region and if they want the zoning to remain rural farmland then it will remain that way. 

 

With all due respect I really don't buy the argument that they would lose what they have. Its been shown time and again that if a neighborhood rises up and pushes back to council that they listen. Look whats happening in Cordova Bay currently, or Topaz Park.  

Edited by rjag, 20 October 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[lanforod]

I'm all for amalgamation. I just get their argument. Your argument is part of what we'd need to argue to make it happen, for sure.

 

Election promises aside, there seems to be very little political will to get traction on this.

[rjag]

I think the best way to forward to simply have an independent study on amalgamation is to first off push for term limits. 4 year terms are far too long for local politics, 3 years are better suited. 2 term max and then you can run for mayor for 2 terms or wait 1 term to run again. This is the only way to try and move beyond incumbent identity politics which has ensnared us

Edited by rjag, 20 October 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[Mike K.]

Anyone who has ever had to deal with the municipal hall in the Highlands will tell you it's an experience. It's a community comprised of old money, multi-generational families and entrenched relations.

 

Newcomers don't necessarily have it easy there unless they stick to themselves and avoid too much meddling with the development or zoning processes, and it really takes time to become "part" of the community.

 

Small communities like that are not necessarily healthy. Over time they can easily become politically charged, insulated regions where change is difficult to not only accept but to pass at the municipal level due to deep relationships and allegiances between residents.

 

So quite frankly, enveloping communities like that into a larger region might actually be an overly positive and beneficial move despite near-term struggles and opposition.

[On the Level]

So what sets them apart from the fine folks in Fairfield, James Bay, Fernwood, Henderson or Cadboro Bay or Blenkinsop Valley?

With all due respect I really don't buy the argument that they would lose what they have.

What sets them apart from a core neighborhood? Distance for one. The various neighbourhoods in the core will have much more in common with one another than with JDF.

Central Saanich was created in the 1950s by precicly this issue. Their needs were not being met so they separated from Saanich.

JDF amalgamating with the core makes as much sense as Victoria amalgamating with Vancouver.

[Mike K.]

Unlike Vancouver, however, JDF is virtually 100% dependent on the 13 municipalities of Greater Victoria/Metro Victoria for

- healthcare and hospitals

- grocery stores

- gasoline

- personal goods

- government services

- transportation infrastructure (other than backtracking and going via Shawnigan to access a BC Ferries terminal), and most importantly

- employment

[rjag]

What sets them apart from a core neighborhood? Distance for one. The various neighbourhoods in the core will have much more in common with one another than with JDF.

Central Saanich was created in the 1950s by precicly this issue. Their needs were not being met so they separated from Saanich.

JDF amalgamating with the core makes as much sense as Victoria amalgamating with Vancouver.

 

We're talking Highlands here, not JDF which is unincorporated. Nobody is advocating for 1 central government, quite the opposite, the consensus is for a reduction from 13 plus a CRD to something less unwieldy, perhaps in the range of 3 or thereabouts. So in that case JDF would be linked to Sooke, Metchosin and parts of Colwood and Langford. 

 

Its not about saving money but about creating less friction. I agree, I wouldnt want Ben Isitt deciding what happens in JDF or Langford, but with 3 larger economic and residential areas we are less likely to see zealots such as Isitt actually on council.

[Cassidy]

The Highlands couldn't even exist without the rest of the municipalities supporting almost everything the need, and/or do - by extension through the CRD.

 

They don't have their own water.

They don't have their own sewer.

They don't have their own refuse disposal.

They have nothing resembling a grocery store, clothing store, automotive store, building supply store or hospital (I could go on, and on).

 

In short, the Highlands are 100% dependent on other municipalities within the CRD for their very existence.

The Highlands can, and should be absorbed into Langford as a first step in what would eventually be a complete CRD amalgamation package (at which point the CRD itself, and all the tax dollars you spend supporting it would effectively disappear completely).

 

Because JDF is unincorporated, and effectively controlled by the CRD as a result - they'd have to join somebody. Probably Willis Point would join the (for lack of a better reference) Saanich amalgamation package, and whatever was left over of JDF out Malahat or Sooke way would join the Langford/Colwood/Metchoisin amalgamation package.

 

Done ... where do I sign up?

Edited by Cassidy, 20 October 2017 - 11:13 AM.

[Bingo]

The Highlands couldn't even exist without the rest of the municipalities supporting almost everything the need, and/or do - by extension through the CRD.

 

They don't have their own water.

They don't have their own sewer.

They don't have their own refuse disposal.

They have nothing resembling a grocery store, clothing store, automotive store, building supply store or hospital (I could go on, and on).

 

 

Perhaps...

They have a good well

They have an efficient septic field.

They compost everything.

They grow all their own produce, have bear skin clothes, drive a horse and buggy, build log cabins and eat organic tree roots for good health.

 

..at least some of them did. 

...maybe...

Edited by Bingo, 20 October 2017 - 01:17 PM.

[Nparker]

...They have a good well. They have an efficient septic field. They compost everything. They grow all their own produce, have bear skin clothes, drive a horse and buggy, build log cabins and eat organic tree roots for good health....

If the Highlands is that self-sufficient it sounds like they don't need any local government or to be a municipality at all.

[Cassidy]

They would dearly love us all to believe that they're "that different" from the rest of the CRD!

In reality though, it's all about money. It costs a heck of a lot of money to maintain acreages within 20 minutes of downtown Victoria.

They want to keep their money in their pockets, retain large acreages with minimal development, and certainly no apartment of condo dwellers!!

 

The Highlands have all of the above ... acreages, money, no apartments, no condos, no interlopers, and all within 20 minutes of downtown.

 

HIghlands is largely resided in by a cadre of very well off citizens, yet the Highlands contributes the absolute smallest dollar amount to the CRD in support of the items in my list above. Nobody in the CRD contributes less across the board, and less in every area ... water, arts, sewer, policing, etc.

 

For one of the regions more well off municipalities, they contribute the least to the betterment of the whole, and yet remain endlessly at the tit of the rest of the CRD for (almost) everything they need.

 

The Highlands have to go, to be absorbed into Langford as the test case for complete regional amalgamation.

[Bingo]

Ha! Where does salt spring, as part of the crd, fit into the mix? Lots of wells and failing septic systems over here!

Matt.

 

I like to think of Salt Spring as being overseas and out of the loop with all the nut bars over in the Victoria region that want densification, densification with not much under 30 stories.

I'm glad I'm on the downhill slope, but I weep for my grandchildren.   

[Cassidy]

Please, please ... don't screw around with Salt Spring!

 

That's where I'm coming to live as soon as I retire, all to get out of this developing rat race called Victoria.

 

Hopefully they'll have raised the ferry fares by then, to the point where it's too expensive for residents of Victoria to "drop by" on the weekend, and looking to the future, hoping I'll be long dead before the ugly creep of the 12 little kingdoms ever makes its way over to Salt Spring.

 

Ahhh, I know I'm only dreaming

[LJ]

The Highlands is the epitome of over-governance that dominates our region. It is absurd to have an entire level of government to manage the affairs of 2000 people.

Yes, and the people seem to hate it and the high taxes they have to pay to maintain their lifestyle.

[LJ]

Anyone who has ever had to deal with the municipal hall in the Highlands will tell you it's an experience. It's a community comprised of old money, multi-generational families and entrenched relations.

 

Newcomers don't necessarily have it easy there unless they stick to themselves and avoid too much meddling with the development or zoning processes, and it really takes time to become "part" of the community.

 

Small communities like that are not necessarily healthy. Over time they can easily become politically charged, insulated regions where change is difficult to not only accept but to pass at the municipal level due to deep relationships and allegiances between residents.

 

So quite frankly, enveloping communities like that into a larger region might actually be an overly positive and beneficial move despite near-term struggles and opposition.

I would suggest you don't move there then.

 

What a lot of people see as negatives I see as positives. I can choose to live in any community I want, and so can you and everybody else. If you want a quiet rural muni you have that choice, and the fact that you are in your own community rather than an amalgamated one, means that you will be able to continue to enjoy your lifestyle and not have some other version pressed on you.

 

Why is it so terrible to have own mayor and council, my mayor takes $1 in salary every year, I'm good with that. 

[Mike K.]

Oh yeah, 100%.

 

I'm just pointing out that the Highlands is no bastion of efficiency and only-good-things.

 

There are real, tangible issues when a community of only 2,000 people in a metro region of nearly 400,000 is self-governed, self-regulated and represented by politicians from an incredibly small, inter-woven community of residents.

[VicHockeyFan]

What do you make of Indian Reservations then?