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2014 Municipal Elections general discussion


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#1241 Coreyburger

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 10:39 PM

OK, so they vote, but not for municipal politicians. See, I thought I was politically knowledgeable but I never thought of the electoral district and the need to have representation for the reserves and outlying pockets of the CRD that aren't covered elsewhere. Interesting. So the reason there was no election buzz around the retirement park is that the sole officeholder got in by acclamation. Why didn't Shebib run there, too?

 

No, Shebib didn't run for any of the EA director's seats. And to be fair, I work in Regional Planning (and was a candidate twice before I joined the CRD), so I have been immersed in this for past 6+ years.



#1242 spanky123

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 08:29 AM

Gerry Pasch[/size], spokesperson for the Navy and Citizenship and [/size]Immigration[/size] Canada, has apparently said she can not participate in immigration ceremonies now.[/size]


Maybe she will decide that pledging an oath should no longer be a requirement of citizenship!

#1243 tedward

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 09:08 AM

Maybe she will decide that pledging an oath should no longer be a requirement of citizenship!

 

<sigh>

 

The oath of citizenship is required under Federal law.

 

Victoria's Mayor and Councillors were under no legal obligation to swear anything other than what they did.


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#1244 Rob Randall

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:28 AM

I wish I could remember the name but a novel came out recently with the premise that Prince Charles became King and through various means attempted to stage a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government of the UK to return it to a true monarchy. Ponder that next time you pledge an oath to the Queen and all her "heirs and successors". Not that I think such a thing is possible but it does show the anachronism of swearing to royalty in our age.

 

I'll say it again, we should be swearing (or affirming) not to individuals but to our laws and rules of our country and to our own personal moral code of knowing right from wrong.


Edited by Rob Randall, 05 December 2014 - 11:28 AM.


#1245 spanky123

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:33 AM

 

I'll say it again, we should be swearing (or affirming) not to individuals but to our laws and rules of our country and to our own personal moral code of knowing right from wrong.

 

If we all had the same moral code of knowing right from wrong then we go do away with about 90% of our laws!


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#1246 AllseeingEye

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:52 AM

I wish I could remember the name but a novel came out recently with the premise that Prince Charles became King and through various means attempted to stage a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government of the UK to return it to a true monarchy. Ponder that next time you pledge an oath to the Queen and all her "heirs and successors". Not that I think such a thing is possible but it does show the anachronism of swearing to royalty in our age.

 

I'll say it again, we should be swearing (or affirming) not to individuals but to our laws and rules of our country and to our own personal moral code of knowing right from wrong.

Rob you are missing the point: when you swear an oath to the institution of the monarchy (in effect the Queen, or King, if the resident Monarch happens to be male) you aren't swearing an oath to Elizabeth per se, an 'individual' woman sitting perched on a throne 8000 kms away sipping tea, you are swearing to the CROWN - which is this country is the sole mechanism upon which, to quote you, the "laws and rules of our country" are completely and 100% based.

 

I have never been a monarchist but I refuse to knuckle under to notions of 'political correctness' - a culture I personally despise and loathe - nor suffer from White Man's Guilt (sorry that will never happen) re: the so-called First Nations. I was initially happy that Lisa Helps beat Dean Fortin for the mayor's seat even though I am no longer a resident of the city and could not vote for her. Nonetheless if her intention was to get off on the right foot by being (all) "inclusive" she has messed up, and she has messed up badly by alienating a whole lot of folks beyond simply the Monarchist League. I think it was Spanky123 who suggested, rightly IMO, that she get some seasoned political advice from somewhere - because this was a major gaffe.


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#1247 jonny

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:59 AM

I'll say it again, we should be swearing (or affirming) not to individuals but to our laws and rules of our country and to our own personal moral code of knowing right from wrong.

 

This is exactly what one does when one swears allegiance to the Crown. You have missed the point.

 

Take the interesting case of some resistance to swearing allegiance to the Queen in the citizenship oath. 

 

 

But in a decision issued on Wednesday, Ontario’s top court dismissed their objections to the oath, ruling the group was wrong to take the oath literally. The decision, citing previous rulings, says that would-be citizens are not actually swearing allegiance to the Queen herself as “the reference to the Queen is symbolic of our form of government and the unwritten constitutional principle of democracy.”

 

http://www.theglobea...rticle20032155/



#1248 Baro

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:10 PM

Oh it doesn't mean what it says, it's symbolic?  Ok well change it to something more literal.

My wife has to take this silly oath next week to become a citizen, to her it just seems odd/silly.  But mouthing some empty promise is the least humiliating part of the whole immigration/citizenship  process so nothing worth getting flustered over.  If it's optional, no thanks, if it's mandatory, god save the queen and and give me my paperwork.

 

Luckily in Victoria it's optional, just like swearing on a bible.  So no fuss, just someone having a little integrity and not shaming the city with a lie or empty promise.    I'm not enraged that pam took the oath, it's optional, it's her business.  I don't think she's making a political grandstand, just choosing to take an oath she (hopefully) believes in.  I'd rather someone be honest and either take or not take the oath based on their actual personal beliefs than feel they need to do it or not to earn political points with a group.

 

Many people seem to be thinking by not taking the oath people are making a scene, doing it for attention or to earn political points with their base.  Can we not even entertain the idea they are simply trying to be honest and not lie to the people of Victoria?  If I don't swear on a bible I'm not trying to be edgy, or make a political statement or flaunt that Im not a christian, I'm doing it because swearing on a bible would be meaningless at best and a lie at worst.  I won't insult Christians by swearing on their bible, and they won't insult me by judging or shaming me for not doing so.

 

Can we not shame helps or others for exercising their same right?  I don't want a monarchist to ever feel shame for swearing loyalty to the crown, nor should the reverse be true.  Just leave it as a non-issue choice, no circus around it. 

 

Now if helps and the others were doing this purely to make a scene, purely to create a media storm and score points with their base that would be sad and I'd understand people throwing some criticism their way.


Edited by Baro, 05 December 2014 - 12:23 PM.

"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#1249 rjag

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:18 PM

Quote from a facebook post

 

The Oath is a cultural tradition and should be acted upon as such. The First Nations maintain and insist we respect their Cultural Traditions. We should do the same for our own.

 

Cant fault that comment. What I'm seeing is selective adoption of certain traditions to suit her needs and her choir that she needs to keep on side.

 

Imagine the uproar if she didn't recognise the first nation lands we occupy (I never figured out why we need to keep saying this)


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#1250 spanky123

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:44 PM

Quote from a facebook post

 

Cant fault that comment. What I'm seeing is selective adoption of certain traditions to suit her needs and her choir that she needs to keep on side.

 

Imagine the uproar if she didn't recognise the first nation lands we occupy (I never figured out why we need to keep saying this)

 

It is fairly common that the Provincial Government acknowledge that certain lands were the traditional home of first nations. This is the first time that I have seen a Mayor or MLA refer to lands as being occupied.

 

Yet another example of an unnecessary inflammatory comment designed to divide opinion.



#1251 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 01:21 PM

It's finally gone national, more than 24 hours later.

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_6277310.html

 

Golly, you have to give Huff Post credit for while not gathering the story, getting each sentence from everyone.

 

Lisa Helps, who was sworn in on Thursday, is the city's second female mayor and its first to avoid the oath to the Crown, said CHEK News.

 

I have nothing against the Queen, but I do strongly support our Songhees and Esquimalt nations,” Helps said after the meeting, reported Global News. “This is their territory, and if there’s anything to emphasize, it’s that.”

 

Helps' inaugural address, which outlined the ways she planned to increase community collaboration, made this clear.

 

"Mayor [Alan] Lowe started a close protocol relationship. The Songhees and Esquimalt Nations are on fire right now in many, many ways, particularly with regard to economic development and we need to support, partner, and collaborate with them as they continue on their journey," she said.

 

However, Helps did take the oath three years ago when she was sworn in as a city councillor.

New council members Marianne Alto, Ben Isitt, and Jeremy Loveday also declined to say the oath this week, according to Kelowna Now.

 

While swearing the oath of office is required, council members do not have to swear an oath of allegiance, Rob Woodland, Victoria's director of legislative and regulatory services, told the Times Colonist.

 


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#1252 tedward

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 03:12 PM

I find it informative they the Times-Colonist article made much of Bruce Hallsor's reaction without any mention of his status as part of the Ida Chong campaign. 


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#1253 spanky123

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 03:31 PM

I find it informative they the Times-Colonist article made much of Bruce Hallsor's reaction without any mention of his status as part of the Ida Chong campaign. 

 

In this context I think that Bruce was speaking as head of the Monarchist league and this had nothing to do with support for Ida Chong.



#1254 concorde

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:11 PM

Lisa Helps, who was sworn in on Thursday, is the city's second female mayor and its first to avoid the oath to the Crown, said CHEK News.

 

I have nothing against the Queen, but I do strongly support our Songhees and Esquimalt nations,” Helps said after the meeting, reported Global News. “This is their territory, and if there’s anything to emphasize, it’s that.”

Yes, first we had Mayor McCheese and now we have Mayor McCluck

 

Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the City of Victoria doesn't have any reserves within its municipal boundaries.



#1255 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:15 PM

Yes, first we had Mayor McCheese and now we have Mayor McCluck

 

Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the City of Victoria doesn't have any reserves within its municipal boundaries.

 

They own land and a building on Pandora.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#1256 Mr Cook Street

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:17 PM

They own land and a building on Pandora.

Also that harbourfront piece on Rock Bay.



#1257 Nparker

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:22 PM

They own land and a building on Pandora.

I own land on North Park; can I assume Ms. Helps will acknowledge me at the next Council meeting?


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#1258 LJ

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:53 PM

Can we not shame helps or others for exercising their same right?  I don't want a monarchist to ever feel shame for swearing loyalty to the crown, nor should the reverse be true.  Just leave it as a non-issue choice, no circus around it. 

Does it look to you like it is going to be a non-issue? It sure doesn't to me.

 

Now if helps and the others were doing this purely to make a scene, purely to create a media storm and score points with their base that would be sad and I'd understand people throwing some criticism their way.

 

You don't think this is exactly why they chose to do it? I do.


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