[Johnson Street Bridge] General discussion

[aastra]

They could just paint the bridge a different colour and that entire effort would be wasted.

[Nparker]

Originally Posted by aastra

I can't believe you're comparing the Tower of Pisa to the Johnson Street Bridge. (just saving Nparker the trouble of replying to that)

Merci beaucoup. If the bridge is still standing in 800 years I will be very surprised. There, I commented anyway.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by Holden West

...there's an informal group (Keep the Blue Bridge!!!) on Facebook.

I found another Facebook group, as well: "Save the Blue Bridge." Dare I suggest they consider amalgamation? They might then have enough numbers for a little less conversation and a little more action!

[aastra]

Market Street Bridge in Chattanooga, TN:

The Market Street Bridge construction began in 1914. It is a bascular-type draw span bridge and is owned by the State of Tennessee. Because of its current condition, the bridge is currently undergoing a major structural renovation which will cost $13,060,428.85.

Once construction is complete, travelers will enjoy sidewalks measuring three feet wider on either side of the thoroughfare making walking safe and easy. The bridge design will also provide architectural attributes and lighting in keeping with the historical significance of the Market Street Bridge. The renovated bridge will look much like the original - only stronger, safer, and ready to be put into use for another 90 years!

http://www.marketstbridge.com/facts.html

Let the record show that the design of one of my maligned hypothetical bridges actually wasn't so far-fetched after all:

Chattanooga's Market Street Bridge (1917)



aastra's maligned hypothetical bridge (2009):

[aastra]

Mystic, Connecticut:

River Road - Running beside the Mystic River, this scenic road offers terrific water views of the ships of Mystic Seaport and Mystic's famous Bascule Bridge.

http://www.mystic.org/landmark-trail.asp

Not to be confused with Olde Mystic Village, this is the "real" downtown of Mystic - it includes the Mystic River Bascule Bridge, one of few operational bascule bridges in the country. For those of us who are unfamiliar with bascule bridges, this is a fancy drawbridge. Feel free to gawk either at the bridge itself or at the tourists gawking at the bridge.

http://www.starrmurphy.com/shopping.php

Historic 1922 marvel delights bridge fans -- its mechanical parts are all out in the open.

http://www.mystic.org/p/highlights-tour.asp


Mystic River Bascule Bridge (1922)

[aastra]

Another famous bascule bridge:

Eine mächtige Stahlkonstruktion überspannt den Hafen von Victoria, die Johnson Street Bridge auch "Big Blue" genannt. Der blaue Koloss aus dem Jahre 1924 ist aufgeteilt in zwei fast identische Struckturen für den Autoverkehr und für die Trans Canada Railway.

http://www.thomklaeui.ch/canada/bilder/victoria.html

[aastra]

If ever there was a thread that deserved to be preserved in the archives, this is it.

[gumgum]

Oh man I'm going to be so choked when she's gone.

[victorian fan]

Perhaps they will paint the new bridge blue too.
That way, 'cross over the blue bridge', still stands.

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Word on the street is that various contracts have been awarded within the past few days - the replacement moves forward. Expect grunts in high-vis vests to be hanging around the JSB and starting the preliminary work soon, most likely ASAP.

Sadly, looming federal infrastructure funding dependant on fixed deadlines for completion (and these other things called "fish windows" with regards to construction) are Serious Things that wait for no one, or (apparently) little or no opposition...

[sigh] ...at least the heritage ninny's saved that "affordable" rental on richmond....

[Phil McAvity]

Aastra, please clean out your PM box. I just wrote you a huge PM and can't send it because your inbox is full.

[DesignStyles]

After reading the outrageous comments on here, I thought I would put my two cents in. I really don't understand why some of you latch on to saving this beast.

It's ugly. So what it's designed by the same guy who designed the Golden Gate. Not all designers do their best 100% of the time. Many residents of Victoria think it's garbage. Sure, it looks great in those night photos but anything looks good in low light.

It's unsafe going through that stupid chicane on the West side, and it's terribly unsafe to ride the bridge on your bicycle. I'm looking forward to a new bridge that is safe to cross and feel like I'm not taking my life in my own hands every day.

It's not a landmark, you're trying to make it one. I do not recall anyone, anytime saying the blue bridge is an attraction before this whole controversy started. Sorry, you can't just create it now. People come to Victoria for oh 1000 reasons other than the blue bridge.

If heritage people had their way, we'd still be living in caves. Lighten up, it's not some controversy over partisan politics, or some other self-serving thing. I'll take the new bridge and Millions of dollars saved from a retrofit so that money can go into social programs and the like. People won't come for the blue bridge if they have to wade through all the homeless that sit around it.

Ok, that last comment is a bit of a stretch but I think you get my drift.

[martini]

Save the Blue Bridge group on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...6059079&ref=nf

Mentions this thread gumgum and aastra.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by DesignStyles

It's unsafe going through that stupid chicane on the West side, and it's terribly unsafe to ride the bridge on your bicycle. I'm looking forward to a new bridge that is safe to cross and feel like I'm not taking my life in my own hands every day.

It's not a landmark, you're trying to make it one. I do not recall anyone, anytime saying the blue bridge is an attraction before this whole controversy started. Sorry, you can't just create it now. People come to Victoria for oh 1000 reasons other than the blue bridge.

If heritage people had their way, we'd still be living in caves. Lighten up, it's not some controversy over partisan politics, or some other self-serving thing. I'll take the new bridge and Millions of dollars saved from a retrofit so that money can go into social programs and the like. People won't come for the blue bridge if they have to wade through all the homeless that sit around it.

Ok, that last comment is a bit of a stretch but I think you get my drift.

I have never felt threatened by riding my bike across and think the corner has been debunked as a non-issue (accident reports please).

And the issue IMO is that the heritage people have not said one word. That it is ugly is your opinion and not a reflection of the entire citizenry and there is a high likelihood that the new bridge will be uglier IMO. Lots of ugly things get saved (think the old power generation site at Rock Bay) but others see value in them. We can't all agree all the time but we can agree on the facts.

This is only bridge of this type west of Ontario.
It was built by Joseph Strauss
Its scale makes it monumental in the harbour
Tourists value it as they take pictures of it.

[Lover Fighter]

Originally Posted by aastra

So did we all know about the Cherry Street Trunnion Bridge in Toronto? Built in 1931 by some bozo named Strauss.



That's the problem with Toronto. It's such an impersonal big city that's lost all connection with its past.


(The bridge is green. Good call by Torontonians. If it were another colour it would probably be gone by now.)

That's awesome, I came across this too about two weeks ago and included it in my letter to council.

[Lover Fighter]

Another aspect that scares me about the replacement of the blue bridge is the precedent council is setting in regards to heritage structures that are less costly to tear down than restore. I just find it surprising in a city that has always prided itself with heritage restoration.

[aastra]

The weakest point in this whole debate is the one that goes "you weren't defending it before it was threatened, so therefore it must not be valuable". It's an incredibly bogus argument because:

1) people take things for granted, like the famous bridge that (in the city's words) would "always be there", or historic buildings at the Jubilee Hospital, or the Coho, or fine old trees in the park right in your own neighbourhood (or the Campbell Building, or the Permanent Loan Building, etc. etc. etc.)

2) nobody was going on about how the bridge was a notorious wreck and an esthetic eyesore that should be dismantled immediately EITHER. I can show you countless pictures of the bridge taken by residents and tourists, I can show you products named after it, I can show you blurbs in tourism guides and books. So how come a sudden decision to trash something is perfectly valid and requires no context whatsoever whereas there's this impossible burden of proof put upon the folks who want to protect it?

I do not recall anyone, anytime saying the blue bridge is an attraction before this whole controversy started.

This is incorrect and has been demonstrated as such many times on this very thread. Just because you don't recall it doesn't mean it never happened.

Some people seem to want to reduce this issue to liking/disliking the bridge. Folks, history (the non-Wikipedia variety) doesn't come down to a popular vote. The bridge is what it is. The equivalent bridge is a prized piece of history in San Francisco, Toronto, Ohio, Tennessee, Connecticut, etc. Nobody has yet offered any explanation as to why it's not a prized piece of history in Victoria. Are we suggesting that we know more than those saps in those other places? Or are we merely ignorant and unwilling to admit it?

Heritage preservation in Victoria has been politically compromised beyond all recognition. Most of us were well aware of that fact many years before this bridge issue came up. The bridge issue is just the most extreme example that we've encountered so far.

People who are rooting for replacing the bridge because they think it serves as some sort of challenge to the stuck-in-the-mud crowd should make note of the fact that the stuck-in-the-mud crowd is BEHIND this. It's their project. The folks who oppose everything and who made everything so darned difficult during the little 21st-century building boom that we've just enjoyed are the very same folks who want to ditch the bridge.

So you aren't challenging them by rooting for the bridge's demise. You're arm in arm with them. Will you be arm in arm with them when they scream about a midrise condo proposal on a parking lot? Or when they flip about modifications to the interior of the Rogers' Chocolates store? Or when they oppose a downtown art gallery or performing arts centre?

Also, the turn on the Vic West side is a lazy turn by any standard. Can we please drop that lemon? Crikey, on the one hand we're claiming we're progressive hipsters boldly rolling forward over our collective past, and on the other hand we're fretting because our unsteady hands can't negotiate any road that isn't absolutely straight?

[gumgum]

I'd pipe in here, but it seems that aastra speaks for me better than I can speak for myself.

Whenever I have people in from out of town one of the first places I take them is the Blue Bridge, I have been doing this LONG before its existence was under threat. And as aastra said, why would anyone feel the need to defend this engineering marvel if it wasn't under attack? Honestly, the argument makes no sense. I have appreciated this bridge before this thread and I will still appreciate it when it's gone. And I am positive there are a significant fraction of the population that thinks like me. And people have to take that into account!

Oops, I guess I did pipe in.

[aastra]

Check out the before and after on this one:

New Jersey's Belleville Turnpike Bridge (1914): Before

http://bridgehunter.com/nj/essex/belleville/


New Jersey's Belleville Turnpike Bridge: After

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/1242455098/

[rayne_k]

Victoria Newsgroup (Saanich/Victoria/Penninsula etc) Letter to the editor:

from: http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver.../49106561.html

Victoria’s blue bridge is a keeper

Ever play pick-up-sticks as a kid? Move just one stick at the wrong time, and the whole pile comes tumbling down. You lose.

Well, that’s what some people say about Victoria’s Johnson Street bridge, more fondly known as the iconic blue bridge. The underwater foundations are corroded, the rivet heads are popping and the paint is peeling. The sky is falling? Talk about Chicken Little!

This is the time of the year when car dealers say: “Buy a new car.”

These promoters seem to be inciting others to add to the chorus: “Don’t just fix it; build a new bridge.”

Maybe, instead, we ought to consider the value of holding on to this marvelous relic of the past. Like Beacon Hill Park, some things are better left just as they are. Renovate, refurbish, or restore, and they’ll last for ages to come. This is what we do to buildings, cars, boats, airplanes, and all kinds of things we love and want to keep enjoying.

Wouldn’t it be awful if the pyramids or the Taj Mahal had been knocked down to make way for other constructions? Think about it. There is another way. Look at the blue bridge as an artwork: The scale in its location is perfect; the articulation of its movements, the colour, perfect. That mass of its counter-weight, wow! This is a keeper.

The walks along the non-lift sides, perhaps, could be widened at intervals to allow strollers to sit, photograph or otherwise admire the views of the harbour while the bridge is tilting. The whistle or bell is part of the fun.

What’s all the rush, anyway? For those in a hurry, there is the Bay Street bridge, so close by.

There is lots of scope for our architects, engineers and planners to make improvements for the future. For example, they could look to improving the other bridge for the needs of high-speed transit and other users who just want to make quick time to make whatever improvements as deemed necessary.

Now is the time to hold back on this bridge proposal and make way for interested Victoria citizens to have their say. Maybe, just maybe, they’ll walk — not just drive over it — and think then about its importance to our wonderful harbour. Just as it is.

Redner Jones

[aastra]

Chicago's North Avenue Bridge (1907 - now demolished)

One of the oldest bascule bridges in the town, and with ornate portal designs and builder plaques, city officials chose to demolish this historic bridge, wiping out a critical part of what makes Chicago the beautiful and prosperous city it is today.

In its place, city officials are all excited because they are building a "suspension bridge" that they say looks like the Golden Gate Bridge. However, the drawing of the bridge they are building looks nothing like the Golden Gate Bridge I am aware of in San Francisco... It looks fake to me. I think it is the result of some engineers having way too much time on their hands. Time that would have been better spent planning a solution that would save the North Avenue bascule bridge while at the same time meeting the demands of traffic on the road... The way the engineers talk about how this new bridge, in their minds, looks like the Golden Gate Bridge, it is like they are jealous of San Francisco. Chicago should not be jealous. They should instead seek to continue to maintain the movable bridges in the city, which define Chicago's historic identity just like San Francisco's bridge.

http://www.historicbridges.org/illinois/north/index.htm

The new bridge:

[aastra]

The scale in its location is perfect...

I really agree with this. I suspect the new bridge won't have anywhere near the same physical presence.

Victoria almost always builds down when it destroys its past.

[jklymak]

^ Of course Victoria will build down. Aside from red herrings like the turn at the bottom of the hill (which has nothing to do with the bridge) the cost comparison made by tear-down proponents is between restoration of a beautiful bridge and building a new generic bridge. Lets see an actual quote on refurbishing the bridge, rather than a back-of-the-envelope estimate, and lets see the design and a real quote for the new bridge. Until then, we are just trusting the word of a single engineering study, which Ms B. has pointed out was undertaken by a company likely to bid on building a new bridge.

[Lover Fighter]

I find it interesting that the value of heritage is ignored with buildings/structures that also serve a purpose to the community. The other example I'm thinking of are the old blocks of the Royal Jubilee Hospital that are slated for demolition and I don't think there has been any protest while a 1920's building of that size anywhere else in Victoria would be protected.

[victorian fan]

lets see the design and a real quote for the new bridge. Until then, we are just trusting the word of a single engineering study, which Ms B. has pointed out was undertaken by a company likely to bid on building a new bridge.

Hear, hear!