[Johnson Street Bridge] General discussion

[aastra]

If we mention it enough times I'm sure they'll get around to removing it.

This controversy has brought to light all sorts of embarrassing tidbits from cities far and wide re: bridges-as-heritage.

And yet Victoria is supposed to be remarkable for how much it values its heritage.

[jklymak]

^ Apparently not if it is slightly inconvenient.

I'm absolutely sure that the real complaint is that the bridge will have to be closed for a year, though Ms. B's finding that the bridge "consultants" are also bridge builders makes one take pause as well..

[Ms. B. Havin]

I thought you might enjoy this (just in case anyone is into painful irony)... From the recently/ newly-formed Blue Bridge Theatre website:

Welcome to Blue Bridge Repertory Theatre

A great city deserves great theatre! Designed to supplement the great variety of theatre currently offered in Victoria, Blue Bridge Repertory Theatre will showcase masterworks from the classical and modern European and North American theatre traditions in the historic McPherson Theatre.


Inspired by the beauty and simplicity of the Johnson Street Bridge, we believe this innovative structure is the perfect metaphor for a new company that is attempting to offer opportunities to an emerging generation of theatre artists while expanding Victoria's arts offerings and contributing to a revitalized downtown core.


http://www.bluebridgetheatre.ca

...Emphasis added...

[victorian fan]

Welcome to New Bridge Repertory Theatre

[rayne_k]

Just noticed an article on the bridge in the latest edition of Focus - http://www.focusonline.ca/

[mat]

Originally Posted by rayne_k

Just noticed an article on the bridge in the latest edition of Focus - http://www.focusonline.ca/

That is Yule Heibel's article. She is an incredibly observant op/ed contributer on development and social issues in Victoria, and researches in depth - as a side note I believe that maybe her last Focus contribution, which is a shame.

Having said that I don't agree with her argument that the current Jbridge should be saved - at any cost. The downtown core needs to look not just at present traffic planning, but 10-50 years in the future. We need a bridge with wider, safer lanes for transit, pedestrians, bikes. LRT - we need a bridge with modern engineering that can likely handle a large seismic event.

Yule herself has wavered

I’ve been second-guessing myself, too.
My initial reaction was, “Tear down that historic
bridge? Joke, ...right?”

- then goes on to denounce any concept of a new bridge, and approaches. The argument being - inconsistent info from city council and the engineering dept, little factual comparison on factored costs new vs rebuild. Her thesis being, advocates for a new bridge are radicals who believe new beats old every time, and then rants at the historical preservation people for being totally silent on this issue - well, there is a message in that.

I believe we desperately require a new Johnson St Bridge, with an iconic design. One that will quickly open/close to enhance inner harbour boat traffic and build on the combined commercial and private boat infrastructure (here I am thinking of Point Hope Ship Yards, Canoe Club Marina, the gravel yard and others). We also need to design a bridge which is an attraction to slow moving pedestrian and bike traffic - one where people are comfortable with the approaches and bridge transit. My question has been - how many people do you see actually walking over the current J Bridge - not many.

What Yule does emphasize, and correctly, is the complete lack of information, even direction, from the City of Victoria. Read this thread and news archives - the decision making, deadline reports and consultation is a complete debacle. We do not have relevant cost comparisons for revamp vs new, there is no agenda or design competition set for a new bridge - and what Yule failed to mention, are the financing deadlines for Federal and Provincial infrastructure funds which require any major project to be completed by 2011.

The current Johnson St bridge is an amazing engineering achievement for its time. It has served Victoria well. We need to look forward and see the bridge not as simply a structure in itself, but as part of a new, integrated part of a Vibrant downtown (to steal Fortin's comments)

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by mat

TWe need a bridge with wider, safer lanes for transit, pedestrians, bikes. LRT - we need a bridge with modern engineering that can likely handle a large seismic event.

But the bridge is safe--when's the last time there was an accident on it? It's the approaches that have the occasional accident and there's no assurance the approaches will be dealt with anyway. I agree it's not comfortable for bikes.

I still need convincing that seismic upgrading is necessary.

[Nparker]

I have avoided weighing in on this issue as it seems so contentious. Whereas I can appreciate the heritage value of the current bridgfe, I think a new bridge is inevitible, and ultimately necessary to support the future growth of the city. The question remains what to do with the old bridge? I suggest saving maybe 1/4 of it and use it as an awesome piece of public art perhaps somewhere on the Dockside Green or Roundhouse sites. I am serious about this. I think it would be amazing! OK start calling me crazy (for those of you who already weren't).

[aastra]

Crazy like a fox.

A crazy fox. Which would make you quite a bit crazier than a crazy person. But I digress.

...we desperately require a new Johnson St Bridge...

If the need is so desperate then how come nobody ever mentioned it until just a few weeks ago?

[mat]

Originally Posted by aastra

Crazy like a fox.

A crazy fox. Which would make you quite a bit crazier than a crazy person. But I digress.



If the need is so desperate then how come nobody ever mentioned it until just a few weeks ago?

There were warnings regarding the foundations of the JSB 12 years ago, and more regarding the steel structure 5 years ago. Council after council have put this off for another day - now we are in a situation where structural failure has moved from a possibility to a likelihood in the event of a minor earthquake.

[aastra]

If that's true then the taxpayers of Victoria should probably get together and sue the city to find out where their money has been going for the past hundred or so years.

Exactly how do they prioritize things? By throwing darts in a dark room? It's just like the bowling green. We never heard a peep about it and then all of a sudden it's a significant issue that must be dealt with ASAP. But then people freaked and all of sudden it's not a significant issue again. Meanwhile longstanding significant issues remain, no action taken.

[mat]

Originally Posted by aastra

If that's true then the taxpayers of Victoria should probably get together and sue the city to find out where their money has been going for the past hundred or so years.

Exactly how do they prioritize things? By throwing darts in a dark room? It's just like the bowling green. We never heard a peep about it and then all of a sudden it's a significant issue that must be dealt with ASAP. But then people freaked and all of sudden it's not a significant issue again. Meanwhile longstanding significant issues remain, no action taken.

That is true of so many issues - homelessness, affordable housing and my favourite - sewage! IMHO one the reasons the JSB is now the top issue is financing. The federal and provincial infrastructure deadlines require immediate proposals, and if I have correct, work must start by this August, and be completed by 2011.

[G-Man]

Well shouldn't we have been getting the sewage plans done instead and applied for the grants I mean talk about bigger bang for your buck.

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by mat

now we are in a situation where structural failure has moved from a possibility to a likelihood in the event of a minor earthquake.

Again with the earthquakes. Worst case scenario after a quake is we spend tens of millions and traffic is inconvenienced for weeks. So we solve it by spending tens of millions and inconveniencing traffic for weeks...

Part of me wants to take advantage of the grant window, the rest of me thinks we should merely catch up on the deferred maintenance and be done with it unless we`re willing to fix up the whole thing, approaches and all.

[Caramia]

Yeah, I can see the temptation of the grant window too. And I credit Mayor Fortin for being willing to work with the provincial government by looking to what we can do and can fund, within their priority structure. Go where the money is... not a bad skill in a Mayor. I'm looking forward to seeing that same talent at work in our affordable housing sector.



But on this issue, I'm in favour of restoration - the best, most long lasting job we can do, with hope that in the future, preservation technologies will have come a long way. The Johnson St Bridge is an icon of Victoria. If we lose it, I hope they make it into a stamp. I'll buy a lifetime's supply of stamps.

[Nparker]

Originally Posted by Caramia

If we lose it, I hope they make it into a stamp. I'll buy a lifetime's supply of stamps.

Is my suggestion of turning the remains of the bridge into public art appealing to you (or anyone else) at all? Since I am pretty sure our current bridge is a goner, preserving at least part of it would be of some value, n'est-ce pas?

[Lover Fighter]

What is the DRA's stance on bridge replacement?

[mat]

Originally Posted by Nparker

Is my suggestion of turning the remains of the bridge into public art appealing to you (or anyone else) at all? Since I am pretty sure our current bridge is a goner, preserving at least part of it would be of some value, n'est-ce pas?

It's not a bad idea at all - either as public art, or set it up somewhere as an active bridge for foot traffic (wouldn't open but still useful)

[G-Man]

^ Hmmm Rock Bay anyone?

[mat]

Originally Posted by G-Man

^ Hmmm Rock Bay anyone?

Bizarre - Rock Bay has its own Wikipedia page!

[Caramia]

Rock Bay is the most interesting part of our city in my opinion.

[aastra]

Just wouldn't be the same without it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthe...61823/sizes/l/

[mat]

Originally Posted by aastra

Just wouldn't be the same without it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthe...61823/sizes/l/

That is a great photo

[Ms. B. Havin]

Originally Posted by aastra

If that's true then the taxpayers of Victoria should probably get together and sue the city to find out where their money has been going for the past hundred or so years.

Exactly how do they prioritize things? By throwing darts in a dark room? It's just like the bowling green. We never heard a peep about it and then all of a sudden it's a significant issue that must be dealt with ASAP. But then people freaked and all of sudden it's not a significant issue again. Meanwhile longstanding significant issues remain, no action taken.

Excellent points, aastra.

Um, re NParker's idea about turning the JSB into a public art artifact (which is an interesting idea), or re-using or re-purposing it in some way: I'm not sure this has been mentioned anywhere, but it seems that city council discussed with some seriousness the idea of moving the bridge to another location - Gorge? - and using it there (using it as a working bridge, not as an art artifact). Apparently, this idea was brought up by Counc. Chandler and then spun out some more by Mayor Fortin. It seems highly bizarre to consider spending money on moving a bridge that's allegedly a potential hazard, while claiming that we can't find the money to fix it where it is now.

[Phil McAvity]

^That just goes to show you the level of genius we have at City Hall. Where else in greater Victoria could the blue bridge possibly go?