[Johnson Street Bridge] General discussion

[G-Man]

While I think GH is a bit off and would not support a lawsuit, I do think that there is a need for an investigation into the decision making process for a replacement and more importantly as I have pointed out previously we have have already been told that the money spent in the late 90's would see the bridge through for many decades and here we are not 10 years later having to replace it. That means we the taxpayers of Victoria were grossly mislead regarding a huge city expenditure. If you buy a dishwasher with a ten year warranty and it dies after one you get a new dishwasher so by my estimate someone owes us a new bridge free.

Also as an aside I am HUGELY alarmed by Geoff Young's comment in that letter that a new bridge will open up new view corridors. This is exactly what we do not want. The bridge should be the endpoint of the viewcorridor.

If decision makers are already alluding to a bridge that we should "look past" then I will consider chaining myself to the bridge.

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Interesting reference about halfway through today's TC article about "guerilla painting" - a quote attributed to Coun. John Lutton:

"One of the major priorities for Victoria is replacing the Johnson Street Bridge and getting the cycling and trail network connecting into the downtown, he said."

[Holden West]

double post

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Also as an aside I am HUGELY alarmed by Geoff Young's comment in that letter that a new bridge will open up new view corridors. This is exactly what we do not want. The bridge should be the endpoint of the viewcorridor.

If decision makers are already alluding to a bridge that we should "look past" then I will consider chaining myself to the bridge.

A "flat top" bridge may be what City Hall desires. Maybe there will be some decorative suspension elements but really it doesn't sound like it would be the subject of many tourist shots.

[G-Man]

^ The problem is that this should not be City Hall's decision on its own.

The city has two very good options:

Keep the current bridge

or

Build a new bridge that will be the subject of photos.

Why are they choosing a third bad option?

[victorian fan]

I predict the new bridge will be twice as expensive and will take twice as long to finish. sigh

[Rob Randall]

The City Engineering Department gave a presentation to Council this morning on the Johnson Street Bridge replacement project.

Construction is due to begin in November pending the receipt of funding and approval of loans.

Cost is $63 million and this includes an enhanced bridge with bike lanes, sidewalks, multi-use path [?], rail corridor and road configuration (on the Downtown and Vic West approaches). Project should be substantially completed by March 31, 2011.

There may be more than one design for selection but this could affect the deadline, as could any public consultation.

Mayor Fortin addressed the issue of design feedback today by mentioning that there are bridge designs posted on Vibrant Victoria "but it has to lift", implying that some images posted here were design exercises depicting fixed bridges. He may have seen aastra's Photoshop depicting what is actually a centre-split bascule bridge. As far as I know, any discussion here about fixed bridges was about their general heritage and artistic value.

[victorian fan]

pending the receipt of funding and approval of loans

These are the key words. With BC's budget troubles, who knows.

[aastra]

Originally Posted by Rob Randall

Mayor Fortin addressed the issue of design feedback today by mentioning that there are bridge designs posted on Vibrant Victoria "but it has to lift", implying that some images posted here were design exercises depicting fixed bridges.

Those simple Photoshop images that I posted weren't meant to serve as design suggestions. I just wanted to see what that familiar location would look like if the bridge spanning it were of a completely different design. Conclusion: a flat bridge would look rather awful there. That's why I added some superstructure in the final image.






Perhaps he was referring to that retracting bridge concept from Washington, DC? It doesn't lift.

[G-Man]

Geez we better be more careful or we are really going to screw something up around here.

[mat]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Geez we better be more careful or we are really going to screw something up around here.

Seriously - is that quote from Mayor Fortin correct? Kudos to aastra - your photoshops gained city attention. VV as well.

[Rob Randall]

There was another presentation before Council regarding the planning process at City Hall and ways to encourage greater public participation. They talked about the Bell Curve model where the middle 60% never participate in municipal affairs.

Other Councillors appreciated the presentation but Geoff Young brought up the earlier Johnson Street Bridge presentation and mentioned how when Federal money is brought to the table that public consultation is swept aside for the sake of time and expedience.

[sebberry]

Tunnel. Problem solved.

[Ms. B. Havin]

^^ I see very little political leadership (and zero "consultation" with the public) here; the whole thing seems driven by (a) deadlines for infrastructure funding; and (b) directives from the city's Engineering Department.

[jklymak]

Originally Posted by mat

Seriously - is that quote from Mayor Fortin correct? Kudos to aastra - your photoshops gained city attention. VV as well.

If only they had done more than look at the pictures...

[jklymak]

Originally Posted by Rob Randall

Other Councillors appreciated the presentation but Geoff Young brought up the earlier Johnson Street Bridge presentation and mentioned how when Federal money is brought to the table that public consultation is swept aside for the sake of time and expedience.

In stark and ironic contrast to their attitude towards private heritage issues...

[Bob Fugger]

City seeks borrowing OK in bid to slash interest rates


By Bill Cleverley, Times Colonist
July 10, 2009

Victoria will look to city residents for authority to borrow the entire cost of the $63-million Johnson Street Bridge replacement project, and not just its hoped-for one-third share.

The city hopes to tap into the federal-provincial Infrastructure Stimulus Fund to cover two-thirds of the cost. By seeking the authority to borrow the entire amount, the city will qualify for much lower interest rates, said Mayor Dean Fortin.

The city hopes to get a 1.5 per cent subsidy on interest costs through a federal loan and wants to get the loan-authorization process underway, said city assistant manager Mike McCliggot.

Under a counter-petition process, residents have a minimum of 30 days to gather 10 per cent of residents' signatures on a petition to force a referendum on borrowing for a major capital project.

Coun. Geoff Young said council will have to make sure the public understands that council is only looking to borrow the entire amount because of timing and technical issues -- not because it plans to proceed on its own if federal funding doesn't come through. If that happens, council might have to reconsider the project, Young said.

"If we are bearing the full cost, I think we have to look again at timing issues, urgency and also we have to re-examine some of the less costly but less satisfactory repair options and living with the [bridge] approaches we have."

Interesting. Here's an opportunity for the pro-refurb/anti-replace lobby to derail the replacement, by forcing a referendum on funding, which would most likely be co-opted to a referendum on replacing the bridge.

Can someone clear this up for me: if we refurbish the bridge, are we still elibigle for federal infrastructure dollars - or only if we tear it down, build it up?

[G-Man]

This is pretty scary actually because I have heard the Mayor say that if the govt. money does not come in they will still need to replace the bridge. Which means it would all be on the local taxpayer.

If that happens I am really voting for a toll on all residents from outside Victoria that use the bridge.

So I will sign a petition has one been started?

[Nparker]

Originally Posted by G-Man

So I will sign a petition has one been started?

Where do I sign?

[G-Man]

^ I thought you wanted a new bridge?

[G-Man]

8000 signatures wow that will be quite the task.

[martini]

Originally Posted by G-Man

This is pretty scary actually because I have heard the Mayor say that if the govt. money does not come in they will still need to replace the bridge. Which means it would all be on the local taxpayer.

If that happens I am really voting for a toll on all residents from outside Victoria that use the bridge.

So I will sign a petition has one been started?

It is an arduous task...but it can be done.
I'd start with the facebook group. Get people organized.
You have to get the petition sheets from City Hall. You can't simply gather signatures for referendum.
You need media coverage as well. Lots of volunteers.

It wasn't successful, but the petition against removing Ellice St. Park was a good example of what can be accomplished with a handful of people in a short period of time.

[North Shore]

This is a bit of thread drift, but one wonders about the impartiality of the TimesColonist in all of this. I read the article in the online version and, ... no comments allowed. yet, on all sorts of other events, go ahead and write in what you think...

[martini]

Originally Posted by North Shore

This is a bit of thread drift, but one wonders about the impartiality of the TimesColonist in all of this. I read the article in the online version and, ... no comments allowed. yet, on all sorts of other events, go ahead and write in what you think...

I have been wondering the same thing. Especially the current status of the Traveller's Inn.
Yet we can comment about a racially motivated assault in Courtenay.

[UrbanRail]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Tunnel. Problem solved.

That wont work unfortunately.