1451 replies to this topic

[N E Body]

We're saying the large surface parking lot doesn't detract from the scene, but some new apartments would detract from the scene?

 

We're saying Victoria has a desperate housing crisis, but not so desperate that large surface parking lots in the neighbourhoods should be eligible for redevelopment?

 

And just to clarify, are we saying the neighbourhood as it currently stands (and has stood since ~1970 or thereabouts) is not attractive? If it isn't attractive then why should anybody care what happens to it? If it is attractive, then don't we need to revisit our premise that apartments = unattractive neighbourhoods?

 

Just look at all that pavement. Even just 7 or 8 stories on the south end only would translate into a fair number of new units, and represent a much more efficient use of the land.

 

I think some people are forgetting some questions... Where do you draw the line? Just those two buildings for that family? Does this open the door for other developers? 

 

I really think they blew it in the 70s regarding the existing towers in that area. Less up... more out. Seven storeys would be fine in my opinion. Eight storeys and I'm on the fence. Maybe a staggered facade to lessen the impact. jmho

Edited by N E Body, 31 October 2018 - 05:29 PM.

[aastra]

 

Where do you draw the line? Just those two buildings for that family?

 

No lines needed. The city should incentivize surface parking redevelopment, in order to drive the process wherever the potential exists.

[Nparker]

...Seven storeys would be fine in my opinion. Eight storeys and I'm on the fence...

This is where I need some explanation. What happens when a building goes from 21 meters to 24 in height or for that matter from 21 meters to 30 meters? 

[aastra]

It seems like all of our purported concerns about housing shortages, esthetics, the urban heat island effect, our ecological footprint, etc. magically become no big deal whenever anybody mentions the massive amount of space we're still devoting to surface parking in the heart of expensive city neighbourhoods.

 

Edited by aastra, 31 October 2018 - 06:40 PM.

[Nparker]

How come I've never heard of the Nude Swim Bar before?

[N E Body]

This is where I need some explanation. What happens when a building goes from 21 meters to 24 in height or for that matter from 21 meters to 30 meters? 

 

Appearance of mass. Over seven storeys and the sightline  and the feeling at ground level changes immensely. Staggering the facade can help... but only so much.

 

The buildings that appeal to me the most in a neighbourhood setting... six storey wood frame (re: Radius). That, imo, should be the new normal to replace the four storey wood frame structures.

[aastra]

 

How come I've never heard of the Nude Swim Bar before?

 

I'm guessing because VV's swim bar is so good? No need to check out all of the others around town.

[Nparker]

...Over seven storeys and the sightline and the feeling at ground level changes immensely...

While that may be your experience, I don't think it's true for everyone.

When I walk directly next to a 6-storey building with practically no set-back

and then when I walk next to a 17-storey building stepped back from a 3-storey podium

the latter feels no more imposing at ground level to me than the former.

It's not so much about a building's height as it is about its massing, at least from the pedestrian perspective. It's also why the CoV's fanatical preoccupation with height while seemingly being less concerned about ground-level building details, boggles my mind.

Edited by Nparker, 31 October 2018 - 07:47 PM.

[aastra]

 

Over seven storeys and the sightline  and the feeling at ground level changes immensely.

 

This is a complete fiction, easily demonstrable as such. Depending on local lore, the magic floor count number varies from one city to the next or even from one neighbourhood to the next in the same city. Floor heights themselves can range wildly. Modern residential floors tend to be short. Historic commercial floors tend to be tall. Just because most people imagine the reverse to be true doesn't make it so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aastra]

 

The buildings that appeal to me the most in a neighbourhood setting... six storey wood frame (re: Radius). That, imo, should be the new normal to replace the four storey wood frame structures.

 

I like this idea, if it's viable to do so (the parking lots would need to be consumed in the process to get the density up).

[N E Body]

This is a complete fiction, easily demonstrable as such. Depending on local lore, the magic floor count number varies from one city to the next or even from one neighbourhood to the next in the same city. Floor heights themselves can range wildly. Modern residential floors tend to be short. Historic commercial floors tend to be tall. Just because most people imagine the reverse to be true doesn't make it so.

 

That might be how you feel but your opinion carries no more validity than mine.

 

Six stories to me is perfect in neighbourhoods... seven is as high as I feel comfortable. Higher is fine in other areas.

 

As a matter of fact... which building gives you a better site line in the photo you have provided. The shorter one, of course. Less mass, less height. Gives the street level viewer more feeling of the presence of daylight and the sky. As I've said... staggering the facade helps.

Edited by N E Body, 31 October 2018 - 08:03 PM.

[N E Body]

While that may be your experience, I don't think it's true for everyone.

When I walk directly next to a 6-storey building with practically no set-back

 

 

and then when I walk next to a 17-storey building stepped back from a 3-storey podium

 

the latter feels no more imposing at ground level to me than the former.

It's not so much about a building's height as it is about its massing, at least from the pedestrian perspective. It's also why the CoV's fanatical preoccupation with height while seemingly being less concerned about ground-level building details, boggles my mind.

 

Add a few of the taller buildings together and then tell me how you feel from across the street. Sight lines...

[sdwright.vic]

I would be one of those people who disagree.

When I lived there I always found this impressive. Actually still do.

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[Mike K.]

Okay... let things deteriorate even further and eventually the market will settle this dispute. Your house might not be worth as much because people will have left the region because it's too expensive but that is all fair. As a matter of fact, it has already started to happen. Coffee shops, restaurants, retail shops and construction sites are already complaining about the lack of employees... people are moving away and others are no longer arriving.

It will sort itself out... but a lot of people won't like the result.

Our population is growing. For every one person who can’t afford Victoria and moves away, two with enough money to live in Victoria comfortably, will arrive.

Between 2011 and 2016 this region grew by 25,000. It will easily surpass 20,000 between 2016 and 2021. It might even reach 27 or 28,000 considering the rise in retirements and the migration west in this country.

[tjv]

So I decided to look up the place I used to live at in the early 2000's, 2001-2003 to be exact.  It was a typical 4 storey, near Cook St Village and Beacon Hill Park, built in 1971, 1 bedroom 1 bath and I paid $595 when I started, don't recall what I paid when I left.  Today, I see they have revamped the building, new wood floors, new kitchen, new bathroom, new decks with glass railings, exterior paint, new windows/patio doors and now $1425.  I think given the location and the revamp that rent is reasonable.  It was also a 15 min walk to the centre of downtown

 

And also from a business perspective the cost of the upgrades also make sense

[Mike K.]

Good info.

In today’s dollars $595 is $807. An annual average rent increase from 2001 of 3.513% (and 2.5% for 2019) yields a rent of $1,097.

Adding in remediation costs which would have easily been into the multi-millions, adding in rising insurance rates that exceed inflation plus rental allowances, adding in rapidly rising taxes, adding in rising electricity rates, utility rates, water and sewage rates, and finally adding in signicnalty higher maintenance costs a rent valued at $1,425 is hard to find issue with.

[aastra]

 

Add a few of the taller buildings together and then tell me how you feel from across the street. Sight lines...

 

Tall buildings clustered together with no gaps can be miserable in terms of views and sightlines, for sure. But so can short buildings clustered together with no gaps. This fact was driven home to me yet again this summer when I had opportunity to enjoy an elevated "waterfront" deck that was mere steps from the waterline, and yet the entire view was completely blocked from left to right by a 3-story building. Being the helpful and informative SOB that I am, I tried to direct every conversation to issues of architectural massing and how width is the real view killer, not sheer height, and how this extremely short building smack in front of us was nevertheless stealing the entire view because it was so long without nary a gap. Many simple measures could have helped: a cutout, a glass foyer/lobby through the middle, more height and less width...

 

Anyway, I was impressed that people understood the point that I was making.But then again, when exhibit A is right there in your face I suppose it's easier to get it.

[Nparker]

... I tried to direct every conversation to issues of architectural massing and how width is the real view killer, not sheer height...

This. Something locals find hard to comprehend.

[Casual Kev]

This. Something locals find hard to comprehend.

 

And this is something Vancouver does right for a change! Yaletown in particular is a good example of a high rise neighborhood that doesn't feel cramped or void of sunlight because the buildings are tall and thin.

 

 

 

[N E Body]

So I decided to look up the place I used to live at in the early 2000's, 2001-2003 to be exact.  It was a typical 4 storey, near Cook St Village and Beacon Hill Park, built in 1971, 1 bedroom 1 bath and I paid $595 when I started, don't recall what I paid when I left.  Today, I see they have revamped the building, new wood floors, new kitchen, new bathroom, new decks with glass railings, exterior paint, new windows/patio doors and now $1425.  I think given the location and the revamp that rent is reasonable.  It was also a 15 min walk to the centre of downtown

 

And also from a business perspective the cost of the upgrades also make sense

 

That sounds like the apartment building I was discussing earlier. They did a nice job on that one.

 

I think rents were in the $1000 range (or less) for a one bedroom just before they started to renovate a couple of years ago.

 

Two bedrooms are now $2000... which might be a bit rich considering that you can still get a newer build with ensuite, laundry and underground parking for close to that. The new build at 1488 Cook Street was starting at $1900 to $2400 when those apartments were hitting the street. Being that close to the park I'm sure they'll have no problem renting them.

Edited by N E Body, 01 November 2018 - 02:41 PM.