1451 replies to this topic

[Bernard]

I'm not sure if it would be. David has found a serious flaw in this plan and there's no fix for it, I don't think.

 

Some people genuinely need to move in to the home they purchased. Scenarios like selling your home in Halifax and being en-route to Victoria behind a moving truck are very real, and happen every day, multiple times a day. Consider individuals who have been posted here by the military. The order is given, they sell their home wherever they are, buy a home in Victoria, and are planning to take occupancy upon their arrival.

 

A seller must vacate the property that they no longer own. They are neither a renter or an owner and would be occupying the premises illegally.

Right now there is no reason anyone would have to move.   We are not formally locked down as a nation but there is no reason people have to move at the moment.   

 

Normally a delay would not work, but the current circumstances give everyone a reason not to move.  A pause is not going to harm anyone significantly.

 

People about to start a new job are generally not going to be able to start that job.

The military has facilities where people can be housed so no one related to the military would be in serious trouble.

 

A pause, for most things in our society, a two to four month pause is what is required

[Mike K.]

Right now there is no reason anyone would have to move.   We are not formally locked down as a nation but there is no reason people have to move at the moment.

 

I just illustrated one reason out of many that requires people to move, though. These are very real, constantly occurring scenarios.

 

Yesterday I saw an international moving company semi-truck roll past the house. Someone's arriving in my neighbourhood, and with a lot of stuff.

[Victoria Watcher]

I just illustrated one reason out of many that requires people to move, though. These are very real, constantly occurring scenarios.

 

Yesterday I saw an international moving company semi-truck roll past the house. Someone's arriving in my neighbourhood, and with a lot of stuff.

 

and that person is probably financially secure.  yes this situation is going to cost a few people some money.  maybe that guy has to pay to store goods and live in a hotel for 8 weeks.  what can you do?

 

normally i'd say we can't all rely on the government.  well, i still do say that i guess.  since the government - and nobody else - is putting us all out of work.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 26 March 2020 - 09:06 AM.

[Bernard]

COVID-19 is a huge pause for the world.   This is not the time or place for anyone to insist on on status quo rules or laws that do not fit the current time and place.   One of the reasons the depression in Canada was particularly bad is because the local, provincial and federal governments wanted to just do things as before and not be flexible.

 

As Victoria Watcher said, if you own a house you can store your stuff and you can stay in a hotel.  You can also store your stuff with your friends and move in with them for the short term.   

 

From now until late May there is not going to be any normal way for what is being done.   

[Nparker]

 

As Victoria Watcher said, if you own a house you can store your stuff and you can stay in a hotel

Assuming hotels are open.

[spanky123]

 

normally i'd say we can't all rely on the government.  well, i still do say that i guess.  since the government - and nobody else - is putting us all out of work.

 

And Government decision makers aren't feeling any of the pain since their pensions are secure and they still get paid their six figure salaries. Ask them to take pay cuts or be laid off and you might find that a lot of things change.

[jasmineshinga]

The military has facilities where people can be housed so no one related to the military would be in serious trouble.

Oh no, oh nooo.

 

Military housing is critically short, thousands of us live in private residences because there's not even a spare bunk for the military member, let alone an extended family. If a military member is in the process of posting (a process which takes a few months and a whole lot of hassle and coordination) THEY WILL POST. If there is an issue with the housing on the other end as posited, then the member might find a cot to crash on (the Naval barracks are reasonable empty at the moment) but their spouse, kids, pets, etc. are going to be stuck in a shitty motel (if one is available); the onus is on the member to find housing temporarily and get reimbursed later, which could be a serious financial strain.

[Mike K.]

Oh yeah, it’s serious stuff. They have one week during which they must find a home and ensure it is secured for their arrival. Arriving from across the country to find a tenant still residing in a home that was to have been vacated on the 31st is a serious dilemma and it’s going to affect people spectacularly given the point David made.

And we’re not even talking ownership scenarios, but rentals as well.

[jasmineshinga]

Yeah, and that 7 days includes travel time. My experience with posting, my hubby was in the field doing a six-month live fire ex. He joined me at the airport in his greens, we flew to Vic, met with our realtor and toured houses for three straight days, found a home, found a lawyer, got our mortgage pre-auth, put in an offer, closed, returned to Edmonton, hubby went back to the field, and we used military runners to get his signature on the necessary documents while he was in the ****.

 

I then spent the remaining three months of his exercise coordinating the various departments and hoops so we could move. If we had gotten to Victoria and found the previous owner still there... I might be incarcerated for manslaughter right now. That is a seriously stressful situation even when it all goes right.

[Mike K.]

Absolutely. Military service is a service. I don’t think people realize just how formal it all is because the focus is always on the age of our ships or the style of our aircraft.

[Matt R.]

While generally supportive of the province's actions here, they left out the situation where someone has purchased a tenanted home some time in the last 4 months lets say and are expecting to take vacant possession over the next couple of months.  It looks like those evictions - owner use of property - will not be enforceable.  That's going to cause issues, particularly if the purchase is part of a chain where the buyer has also sold and is expected to provide vacant possession to their buyer etc etc.

I have seen nothing that prohibits evictions outside of the covid issue. Have you?

Matt.

[Matt R.]

No matter what sort of program is set up and no matter what the government does to protect people, there are going to be people that suffer from the decision.   There will be losers from every action of the government at this time.
 
In this case, the best action the realtors can take is to all agree and say the closing date for every property in the chain is postponed for 4 months.   It is the simplest and easiest fix.   No one needs to move that the moment and therefore a four month pause will not cause any hardship for the owners.

Well, that’s not true is it. We have a deal closing in May. It’s very possible we will use some of those proceeds to loan to our company to keep the lights on and start up again once we are able to open. If we aren’t able to make money this summer, we won’t survive until next summer, or barely.

If the feds are talking interest free loans, that may be a solution but they sure as hell aren’t.

Also, what’s to say our buyers financing will still be available to them in four months? One of our tenants has already secured a new rental, and the other has been given notice and we’ll end up paying her out.

Matt.

[DavidL]

I have seen nothing that prohibits evictions outside of the covid issue. Have you?

Matt.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, as I understand it all eviction orders are suspended, so if notice were provided last month for next month for owner use of property then that notice would no longer be in effect and the tenant is under no obligation to move.  There is some question about what the reset period would be as owner use is quite a long notice 2-3 months depending on when delivered, so does that reset once again when we see a return to normalcy?  

 

To Bernard's point, yes there is a lot of pressing the pause button, extending dates and doing the right sorts of things that we need to do now.  But some moves do need to happen.  The financing point is good as well as a lender won't sit on funding a mortgage forever and the longer it takes the more likely it is that the lender back out.  Any transaction being written currently likely has an automatic extension built in referencing COVID as we've seen several different COVID clauses come out to try to account for the situation, ranging from the timing of deposits to appraisals etc etc.  

 

Again, generally supportive, but it is likely that they're going to have to have a look at this over the next little while, or at least I hope they do, though understandable to let it slide and see if it can just be dealt with as there are a lot of moving parts out there right now.

[Victoria Watcher]

in some jurisdictions where a "last rent" deposit is required for rentals, some landlords are allowing their tenant to use part or all of that for April rent, with the proviso they pay it back up over time.

[Mike K.]

Would this also apply to damage deposits?

[Victoria Watcher]

Would this also apply to damage deposits?

 

i think by law here the maximum damage deposit is 1/2 a month rent.  i guess it might be possible.  but some places you pay "first and last" month at sign-on.  so the landlord has a whole month's rent in hand.

 

i mean at the end of the day the landlord is just giving a break, no matter how they sort of phrase it.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 March 2020 - 08:20 AM.

[Bernard]

Oh no, oh nooo.

 

Military housing is critically short, thousands of us live in private residences because there's not even a spare bunk for the military member, let alone an extended family. If a military member is in the process of posting (a process which takes a few months and a whole lot of hassle and coordination) THEY WILL POST. If there is an issue with the housing on the other end as posited, then the member might find a cot to crash on (the Naval barracks are reasonable empty at the moment) but their spouse, kids, pets, etc. are going to be stuck in a shitty motel (if one is available); the onus is on the member to find housing temporarily and get reimbursed later, which could be a serious financial strain.

I am not talking about permanent housing, I am talking about housing for now.   There is space in numerous facilities.  Also, the percentage of the military being posted at any one time is not overwhelming.   Next, the military I assume is not stupid enough to continue a lot of posting at the moment.    And even if the person is posted, there is no reason to have the family moving as well for the moment.

 

This is a once in a century crisis, the normal way things are done, or have been done, no longer apply.   What matters is to reduce all interactions between people.

[Bernard]

The process to evict someone is not fast at the best of times.   Right now I am not sure if you could even access the services needed to get an eviction enforced or if you could even get a judgement.

[jasmineshinga]

Next, the military I assume is not stupid enough ...

You underestimate the idiocracy of military beaurocracy. If there's anyone in the process of posting, it's going to keep rolling on.

 

That said, posting is usually done over the summer so kids can finish out school, etc. We should be back to normal long before it's actually a widespread issue.

[Matt R.]

I'm not sure what you mean, as I understand it all eviction orders are suspended.

Any language I have seen specifically suggest evictions related to Covid 19. I would love some clarity, but I can’t find it. This likely will not impact us and our two current tenants as we already have an agreement but as with all of these announcements this week, pretty light on the details.

Matt.