44 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

C-FAX News

VICTORIA COUNCIL PASSED A RESOLUTION CALLING ON THE PROVINCE TO REVIEW AND PROBABLY INCREASE THE MINIMUM WAGE.

THE MOTION IS ACTUALLY A COMPROMISE.

THE LOCAL LABOUR COUNCIL WAS LOOKING FOR SUPPORT FOR ITS CAMPAIGN FOR A TWO DOLLAR INCREASE.

MOST COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE NOT PREPARED TO BE THE SPECIFIC.

GEOFF YOUNG VOTED AGAINST EVEN ALLOWING THE TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION SINCE IT’S OUTSIDE OF CITY JURISDICTION, BUT ONCE DEBATE WAS UNDERWAY HE LED THE NO SIDE.

“IF WE COULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF POVERTY BY MAKING LAWS, THEN WE WOULD HAVE SOLVED IT A LONG TIME AGO.”

LABOUR COUNCILS HAVE BEEN LOBBYING FOR CIVIC SUPPORT THROUGHOUT THE PROVINCE, WITH VARYING DEGREES OF SUCCESS.

SO FAR, THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT HAS SIGNALED NO INTENT TO ADJUST THE MINIMUM WAGE.

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This was not a real serious decision--more of a formality since it's the Province's decision. Geoff Young brought this up and spent a great deal of time explaining why he thought it was a dumb idea for Council to spend so much time debating a subject that they have no power over and why it's not good for government to meddle around with supply and demand. Dean Fortin started drumming his fingers and Young blew up at him yelling something like, "I see Councillor Fortin drumming his fingers--you're the one who wanted the debate!" and that Fortin was bringing this forward so he could score political points. Hughes and Madoff were also in support.

[Mike K.]

Employees are becoming more indifferent about the needs of the customers they are serving and we should be paying them higher wages? How about they earn higher wages through work experience and dedication to their place of employment/employer?

[G-Man]

The minimum wage hike argument is quickly being dismissed these days. I mean with todays job market in Victoria at least it is easy to get a job in the 10 - 12 dollar an hour range. Anyone that takes a job at minimum wage just did not try hard enough.

[Galvanized]

I can understand raising it if there wasn't so much demand for workers but in the current situation potential employees have the edge over employers.

[VicHockeyFan]

Voodoo economics!

[Mike K.]

According to Gene Miller, a local development advocate and a man with a keen eye on the status of downtown, a chunk downtown businesses are on the verge of collapse due to high taxes, high maintenance, high operational costs and high lease rates. Increasing the minimum wage would undoubtedly push even more businesses out onto their financial edge.

Wrt other comments on pay, even if plenty of employers are paying $10 to $12 an hour, just as many are paying below $10/hour.

[G-Man]

^ they may pay below but no one is working there.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ they may pay below but no one is working there.

Agreed. I find it hard to believe there are many folks working for $8/hr in non-tippable jobs.

[gumgum]

The economy will not always be this strong. It's wise to raise the minimum wage now, rather than when the retailers are really in the dumps when the market take a dive.

[Mike K.]

You sure nobody works in those places?

Every fast food outlet and lots of downtown food places pay between $8 and $10 an hour.

[VicHockeyFan]

The economy will not always be this strong. It's wise to raise the minimum wage now, rather than when the retailers are really in the dumps when the market take a dive.

If the market dictates that a certain job is only worth $8.95 per hour, why should the government regulate that it is worth $10?

[gumgum]

^If the market dictates certain jobs are worth $8.95, then why is no one willing to work for less than ten at the absolute minimum?
Besides, cost of living in BC dictates that $10 an hour is barely enough to get by. The government would be responding to the market if it raised minimum wage, not dictate market forces.

[VicHockeyFan]

^If the market dictates certain jobs are worth $8.95, then why is no one willing to work for less than ten at the absolute minimum?
Besides, cost of living in BC dictates that $10 an hour is barely enough to get by. The government would be responding to the market if it raised minimum wage, not dictate market forces.

The astronomically overwhelming majority of folks who work at or near the minimum wage are youngsters that work part-time for spending money, not those that are "trying to get by".

[gumgum]

^In the current market, yes.
But that may change if the market takes a downturn.

[VicHockeyFan]

^In the current market, yes.
But that may change if the market takes a downturn.

So the market takes a downturn and we should add to the economic woe by mandating an artificially high wage, that leads to higher consumer prices for the downtrodden? Again, voodoo economics. As my friend Sowell write: "Making anything more expensive almost invariably leads to fewer purchases. That includes labor".

Read this: http://www.heritage....onomy/wm676.cfm

...or this: http://www.capmag.co...cle.asp?ID=4472

[gumgum]

This all boils down to a question of "capitalism" versus "socialism"; and I don't have the energy or the time to contribute to a endless discussion on where the balance should lie.
But if you're going to use a capitalist model such as from the US, then let's remember that the minimum wage south of the border is still a mere $5.15 an hour. Employers are abusing the government's lack of involvement in this debate and people are suffering. Should we really mirror our economy on that model?
Besides, who cares if it's mostly youngsters that are putting up with the current minimum wage? Of any age cohort, they are the ones we should worry about the most. If they can't afford school let alone basic living expenses, then how will they eventually afford make it themselves as professionals?
Market forces and government intervention do strike a balance afaic. It is the Canadian way.

[davek]

If the minimum wage does more good than harm, why stop at $10 an hour? Wouldn't $12 be better? $15? Of course not. Assume a hotelier can budget $80 an hour for cleaning staff. She hires 10 low skilled, poorly educated people. Put in a $10 hourly minimum wage, and the two women with the least skills and education, that is to say, the most desperate and vulnerable, will become unemployed. Those women coud have used that job to gain skills and work experience, but instead they will have to accept government handouts, which will be less than the $8 per hour they could have been earning. This is how minimum wage concentrates wealth into fewer hands, and hurts the poorest of the poor.
Everyone is better off when government is strictly limited to the protection of people's rights, and prohibited from tinkering with the market.

[Mike K.]

^If the market dictates certain jobs are worth $8.95, then why is no one willing to work for less than ten at the absolute minimum?
Besides, cost of living in BC dictates that $10 an hour is barely enough to get by. The government would be responding to the market if it raised minimum wage, not dictate market forces.

The astronomically overwhelming majority of folks who work at or near the minimum wage are youngsters that work part-time for spending money, not those that are "trying to get by".

According to the US labour bureau, 60% of individuals working for minimum wage are over the age of 20. Granted, that statistic is for the US, but the stats can't be that much different up here, can they?

[VicHockeyFan]

But if you're going to use a capitalist model such as from the US, then let's remember that the minimum wage south of the border is still a mere $5.15 an hour.

The US standard of living is 20% higher than Canada. Canadians earn less on average than the poorest US state. Canadians earn less on average than the average black US person.

[gumgum]

Well according to the [url=http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/indicators/27.html:fa79f]2006 UN Human Poverty Index[/url:fa79f], Canada was ranker better (6th). The US was 8th.