399 replies to this topic

[seymour201]

I thought it was funny how they city complains about any building in downtown over 4 floors because it will destroy the "iconic" image of the city. But they are fine with tearing up the lawn of the Leg and building some sort of structure right in the middle of the same "iconic" image.

[Mr Cook Street]

As an initial plan, I'm encouraged. I don't believe that residents will support paving any part of the lawns in the end. I'm just glad they are talking about revitalizing the harbour.

[aastra]

But they are fine with tearing up the lawn of the Leg...

It was the same with the Johnson Street Bridge. The folks in charge are definitely not opposed to change, despite what a lot of people might think. The puzzle is understanding why the high-profile changes that they support are acceptable even while other comparatively minor changes are out of the question.

[gumgum]

I'm surprised all this property belongs to the city. The lawn doesn't belong to the province? The causeway doesn't belong to the Harbour Authority?

This will move all of the traffic back to Superior.

[jonny]

The Legislature lawn is the last area of the city I would spend any time or money "revitalizing".

[Benezet]

Uh-oh. Sounds like the Centennial Square 'revitalization' writ large.

I wonder if the sculptor who gave us Bastion Square's 'Commerce Canoe' is in on this?

[G-Man]

I like the Commerce Canoe. One of the best new pieces of public art in the city. I echo VHF's thoughts though, the focus should be on the parking lots and Ships Point not the parts that are already nice.

[Benezet]

Here's the concept document:

http://www.victoria....ce Concepts.pdf

Check out the plan for Ship's Point. If I were among the folks who put on gigs there currently, with a portable stage in place right where the "landmark columns with fiddlehead capitals" are proposed, I would be very concerned about the loss of functionality.

[jonny]

I also would focus on Ship's Point and the neighbouring parking lot areas that are the 'jumping off point' for float plane travellers.

[AllseeingEye]

While some of the details of this proposal are indeed questionable beginning with is this a priority spend in the face of other initiatives - and truncating and paving over a portion of the legislature lawn...really? - and need a serious re-think, at least this has kicked off a general conversation that is long overdue IMO. Not only the harbor walk piece but the legislative precinct as a whole is generally tired and in need of attention IMO. Predictably when this one hit Facebook the NIMBY's went ape and jumped all over it, lol. Long term it is fun to imagine what a revamped RBCM site, updated Belleville Terminal and an appropriately-developed Ship Point (a performing arts center?) might look like. I can't imagine but that collectively the result would be a huge improvement....

[G-Man]

^ I agree with that but how much of this is really a Johnson Street Bridge fait accompli? Parts of that plan are okay and actually the ledge lawn seems kinda cool. But parts are unmitigated disasters.

Ships Point - No words for how terrible this is!!!
Laurel Point - Orcas? Really? Why not have a giant cup of tea too!
Barclay Point - Built part is nice but where the hell did that forest and grass come from?? This location should be urban not some nature park.
Bastion Square - That is really the best you could come up with? What happened to that terraced steps plan from a few years ago?? That alone is better than all of these.
Canoe Club - See Ships Point.

[baconnbits]

Rather than dumping $40M into this project right away, the city should stage the redevelopment of the harbour. the walk from undersea gardens to ships point is in relatively good nick. the areas to focus development should be the two parking lots and the area in between both, and the area between the johnson street bridge and the parking lots.
the extension from JSB to Barclay point can wait. that area is a long ways off from proper gentrification and creating a pedestrian way is unlikely to be the instigator...this isn't the highline in NYC we're talking about here.

First - i think this should be implemented
http://www.fdarc.ca/...=content-574775
it doesnt need to be the market concept as originally envisioned, it can be a retail and office complex. add an additional floor (cue gasps of disbelief) and you have 3 floors of office and 1.5 floors of retail. the open courtyard in between would attract plenty of footfall with the right tenants and is a good way to combine commercial and leisure use of the space.
with good restaurants and fresh food shops on the ground floor, this would create a 7 day a week activity centre. the extended boardwalk can be used for small scale events in the summer and on weekends.
have a bar on the lower floor (by bar i mean pub style joint not a night club) and it extends the use of the complex throughout the day and week.

city can't afford to develop this. negotiate the ownership from whatever parties you need to deal with. sell the land on a ground lease structure to a private developer on a 99 year lease with income to the city tied to the gross revenue of the property. city gets the land developed for free and a continual, though probably not overly significant, income stream

parking lot 2 (by ships point) - continue with redevelopment of float plane terminal.
if possible, build a raise platform for a courtyard/public space with a parking lot/drop off space for the float planes below. have a stair case/ramp descending to the float plane terminal and restaurants.
this keeps some parking spaces, creates public space, keeps the float plans and brings the public space closer to street level so it doesn't feel so desolate.

i don't mind the parliament idea, to be honest, but stage it. save it for a later date. the car parks are the major blight.

lastly - the area from JSB to the car parks. partly taken care of by the redevelopment of the northern junk buildings. City can take care of the rest
the cost o the above 'immediate' works would be substantially lower than $40M.
How to fund it:
private donations - do whatever they can to get some money from high net worths and whoever else in the door. appeal to civic sense of pride, i think some money could be found for finally doing the works that should've been done ages ago
city lottery - can the city put in place a special purpose lottery. portion of the funds goes to a winner. city wide? island wide? province wide? sell tickets at the various ferry terminals, float planes, airports.
every dollar a downtown land owner spends on tickets, it gets 10 cent rebate on its land tax (anything to sell more).

seek all possible federal and provincial moneys - and actually work at this.

[G-Man]

^ Baconbits for council!

[sebberry]

I wonder what activities they have planned for "Celebration plaza" that can't take place down at Ship point.

[Sparky]

^ Baconbits for council!

Geezus baconnbits, that is one of the most profound posts that I have read on this forum.

What else have you been mulling over? I agree with G-Man.

[dirtydeeds]

Uh-oh. Sounds like the Centennial Square 'revitalization' writ large.

I wonder if the sculptor who gave us Bastion Square's 'Commerce Canoe' is in on this?

Or maybe the "artist" that gave us the mound of twisted metal in front of the Save on Foods Arena?

[Benezet]

Or maybe the "artist" that gave us the mound of twisted metal in front of the Save on Foods Arena?

For the record, I like the "Commerce Canoe" and many other public sculptures, but context is important. A whimsical piece might be really cool in a modern airport, but perhaps not so much within a postcard view of ivy-covered Edwardian buildings. You don't see the Empress decorating its front lawn with musical sculptures and such....

[dasmo]

Not to be positive but... I must admit The notion of a contiguous harbour walkway has me excited it might happen in my lifetime. Enough so that I find myself a little forgiving of some design details. I hope some of them will not be rendered in such stark cartoony colours and textures as is usually the case in the real world. I get the paving of the lawn. I've been eradicating my own lawn in favour of active space like patios and garden beds. What they have planned there is more a large square taking over the road (without cutting off traffic). This way when they have events that entire space can be a fluid people place when the traffic IS cut off. This is one detail I think is fantastic. There is still plenty of lawn space there.... I also think what was done to centennial square was pretty good. That ridiculous restaurant, cutting off the square was terrible and I honestly thought it would never be torn down. The fixes to that square have made it much more public and I walk through it all the time now, when I never did before....

[VicHockeyFan]

Are there groups right now that are saying "we'd like to do an/more events/performances/festivals in Victoria, but we need a bigger next-to-the-water venue".

I'd rather have the money spent on a co-op ad campaign with a major promoter like Atomique to bring a big music festival here, that would use many existing venues, and done in the off-season.

[yodsaker]

Fortin et al are nuts if they want to pave part of the lawn at the ledge.
IT'S GREEN SPACE, DEAN! Somehow a Symphony Splash picnic just doesn't feel right sitting on concrete. BTW, who does the lawn belong to? If its part of the ledge then it belongs to the people of BC. Yes Dean, even those in Salmon Arm and Fort St. John.