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[Langford] Reflections condo | 6-storeys | Built - completed in 2009


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#301 spanky123

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 04:22 PM

I apologize if my comments were understood as a slight to any owners of units in the reflections. That was not my intent.

What I was trying to suggest was that I felt the developer was playing games by first offering an auction and then immediately following it with a "liquidation sale".

I think that BM has problems far worse than any bank could impose, but then again that is only my opinion.

#302 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 04:38 PM

I apologize if my comments were understood as a slight to any owners of units in the reflections. That was not my intent.

What I was trying to suggest was that I felt the developer was playing games by first offering an auction and then immediately following it with a "liquidation sale".

I think that BM has problems far worse than any bank could impose, but then again that is only my opinion.


As far as I'm concerned, they can call it whatever they want. Willing buyer, willing seller at whatever price, that's the way it goes.

#303 Deegrandmaster

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:35 PM

i SHOULDN'T HAVE LEFT MY COMMENTS READING LIKE A BLANKET STATEMENT. i SUPPOSE MY THINKING IS THAT THE IDIOTS KNOW WHO THEY ARE LIKE MARCAT AND OTHERS. THE GUYS THAT ARE RESPECTFUL AND HAVE A BRAIN ALSO KNOW WHO THEY ARE. i HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COMMENTS ON A PUBLIC FORUM THAT HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THEM UP.

THE REALITY IS THAT RESPECT EARNS RESPECT. NEGATIVITY ATTRACTS MORE OF THE SAME. WHY I FEEL I NEED TO DEFEND THIS PROJECT IS OBVIOUS BUT REALLY...... THE DUDE WHO SAID IT WOULD TAKE 15-20 YEARS TO TURN A PROFIT IS A LITTLE OUT TO LUNCH.

I CAN'T WAIT TO NOT VISIT THIS FORUM........BUT SOME OF YOU JUZ KEEP BRINGIN ME BACK

MY APOLOGIES TO THE POSTERS ON HERE THAT ARE COOL BUT I'M SURE I NEVER OFFENDED YOU ANYWAY

PEACE

#304 Caramia

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 10:05 PM

Internet forums are evil addictive things. You think you are just defending one little point, but you end up hooked.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#305 househuntvictoria

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 06:32 AM

So the market is down..........gee I wonder if it will come back..........I would guess so..........and with a vengeance... I wouldn't sell our place for a small profit right now but I will in time do very well as will anyone with half a brain when buying and selling real estate.


This is entirely the problem surrounding real estate in Victoria in general, and more specifically, this current price craziness up then bust down.

If you are buying a home to live in that you can afford for the long term, why should you care how much it will be worth 5, 10, or 15 years from now?

You asked for people to back up their assertions with facts. But you made blanket statements like: "it will come back...with a vengeance" and "anyone with half a brain" can do well in real estate.

The truth, and really the only fact right now, is that people who bought in Reflections during presales paid more than people who are buying in Reflections right now. If the 40% off numbers are real, which I doubt very much, then people who bought in Reflections during presales have a long time to wait before they'll see their units have a market value close to what they paid.

Contrary to popular belief, real estate does not consistently inflate "with a vengeance." It did between 2003 and 2007, but that wasn't normal, and that vengeance-fueled inflation is the reason why new condo prices are plummeting 40% or more in Victoria right now.

It's unfortunate for the people who bought during presales, but if they were truly buying a home, why should it matter? If they can afford it and are happy with it, then the future value shouldn't be too big a concern.

Buying and selling real estate for capital gains is not "investment" it's "speculation." Buying and renting real estate for net rental income fits the definition of "investment" but there really aren't too many people doing that at today's prices because the return on investment is too low compared to other less risky and more liquid investment vehicles.

Most so-called real estate investors buying properties right now are really providers of subsidized housing for renters like me who are happy to let someone else pay the other 35 cents per dollar between the renting and ownership costs.

I do take issue with the "anyone with half a brain" can make money in real estate comment. I think the current pace of price drops will demonstrate that many people who thought they had a full brain to make money in real estate really only had half a brain and it was the emotional, and not the logical, half that they got stuck with.

#306 rjag

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:15 AM

THE DUDE WHO SAID IT WOULD TAKE 15-20 YEARS TO TURN A PROFIT IS A LITTLE OUT TO LUNCH.


That was me and I stand by that comment

If someone purchased in the pre-sales of this or most other condos at the peak of the market, it will be many many years before the original price is realised. If you do a bit of research and consider what happened in the '80s and '90's you may begin to understand how real estate markets evolve and work. They are cyclical. Tulipmania happened in the last 2 years, demand outstripped supply and then the opposite happened. Look at San Diego or Miami off 40-50%.

Dont say Victoria is different because it isnt.

This link is a good way of showing historical values up to today.
http://video.google....699799528285056



Anyway, if you bought to use this as a home, then it shouldnt matter as a home should never be viewed as an investment.

#307 G-Man

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:35 AM

Victoria is different.

#308 Newlywednotnearlydead

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:31 AM

THE REALITY IS THAT RESPECT EARNS RESPECT. NEGATIVITY ATTRACTS MORE OF THE SAME. WHY I FEEL I NEED TO DEFEND THIS PROJECT IS OBVIOUS BUT REALLY...... THE DUDE WHO SAID IT WOULD TAKE 15-20 YEARS TO TURN A PROFIT IS A LITTLE OUT TO LUNCH.


First, Caps Lock is not your friend.

Secondly, like HHV said, if you like your condo, great. If you bought it thinking you're going to make a huge profit, well, you're a few years behind the people who just paid ~100k less than you did. There's a mentality that has developed where by purchasing a place to live, people somehow they have become real estate investors. By their nature, investments are risky, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you purchased your condo as an investment, than you definately lost, at least in the short term. If you purchased as a home, then the loss in value sucks, but shouldn't be a huge deal.

Regardless of you defending the project on an internet message board, the people who bought at marked down prices have set the value for your condo, not anyone else's negativity. Since only 15 of the 40 units sold, it appears that further discounts are coming, so market value for your condo is going to decline further. However, again, if you bought a place to live in that you are happy with, then the investment aspect is largely unimportant and the intrinsic value of owning your own home should make up for any loss in paper value. After all, at this point you haven't lost any money unless you have to sell.

#309 rjag

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:45 AM

Victoria is different.


He says I hope with tongue in cheek!!!:)

I've been following a group of homes in the North Oak Bay and Cadboro Bay area. Most have been on the market now in excess of 180 days and have been relisted a few times to skew the days on market.

2 have offers, the 1st one originally listed at $1.15million now has an offer of $750k(off 35%) the 2nd original list of $850k now sold at $670k (off 20%)

Another original list of $1.15million has been lowered to $925 for the last 6 weeks and still no bites

In the high end of the market in the last year there is a 25-30% correction, probably another 10-15% correction over the next 6 months still to come.

In the mid range the correction is about 20% so far with probably another 10% or more to come.

In the sub $400k range the correction is about 10% with another 10% coming.

This is not unusual, its happened several times in the past and will happen again in the future. Its not the end of the world, its a pendulum that swung too far in one direction and now is swinging too far in the other.

Real estate is no different than the stock market. The market thrives on confidence and when theres no confidence......this is a great time to be a vulture

#310 Guest_Marcat_*

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:15 AM

i SHOULDN'T HAVE LEFT MY COMMENTS READING LIKE A BLANKET STATEMENT. i SUPPOSE MY THINKING IS THAT THE IDIOTS KNOW WHO THEY ARE LIKE MARCAT AND OTHERS. THE GUYS THAT ARE RESPECTFUL AND HAVE A BRAIN ALSO KNOW WHO THEY ARE. i HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COMMENTS ON A PUBLIC FORUM THAT HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THEM UP.

THE REALITY IS THAT RESPECT EARNS RESPECT. NEGATIVITY ATTRACTS MORE OF THE SAME. WHY I FEEL I NEED TO DEFEND THIS PROJECT IS OBVIOUS BUT REALLY...... THE DUDE WHO SAID IT WOULD TAKE 15-20 YEARS TO TURN A PROFIT IS A LITTLE OUT TO LUNCH.

I CAN'T WAIT TO NOT VISIT THIS FORUM........BUT SOME OF YOU JUZ KEEP BRINGIN ME BACK

MY APOLOGIES TO THE POSTERS ON HERE THAT ARE COOL BUT I'M SURE I NEVER OFFENDED YOU ANYWAY

PEACE


awww you're words for me are too kind, I'm going to leave the office today and stew all weekend. *rolls eyes* You're uncalled for comments as to my my intentions or knowledge really mean a whole lot to me.

You can continue believing my accusations or sharing of issues with the building are going to affect you're "investment" but I far assure you anyone with "half a brain" would do their due diligence, and not take the word of a annoymous poster on a forum, as well as a finger pointing, name calling owner of a unit. They'll look into it, get a professional to check out and hey if what I've been told and seen isn't true and I'm just wearing a real bad prescription, and suddenly my hearing is gone and the contractors that worked on the project to the end actually had positive things to say, than my bad! Stop worrying about what I share, its not an opinion, its factual information that I've seen with my own eyes, as well as that has been relayed to me by various contractors who had involvement in the project to near the end if not the end. I'm sure you notice there is information passed on regrading a variety of projects under construction throughout this site, by myself and others in the business and no one seems to take such personal offense to them. Bottom line is the liquidation of the remaining units due to Andrew Khoo present financial situation and the condo market tanking are going to be what devalues the home you're purchased before any information I or any other person passes along please keep that in mind. I have nothing against Andrew Khoo, the Reflections project, or any of the purchasers. I simply like to keep people informed of what I've seen and been informed of.

The dude (rjag) that said it would take 15-20 years to turn a profit is the least bit out to lunch, I'm pretty sure he arrived early for his reservation.

#311 spanky123

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:25 AM

Investors in Japan have been waiting 25 years and many of their investments are still below water.

#312 Deegrandmaster

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:05 AM

WOW
I didn't mean to have cap locks on I noticed when I was half way done and decided to leave it. You guys are right the peoeple buying the less attractive units facing the back with a cave like floorplan are buying for much less. That's like comparing a chrysler with a bmw.

Victoria is different as is Vancouver Island. If you think that the retiring baby boomers want to stay in eastern canada and china etc you have a little research to do. They didn't build Nanaimo the way they did to be ready for the 70,000 people that live there.

There will be another building boom and I would guess in less than 7 years. Not 15-25.

I guess some people live in gloom and doom (poor you)

I know you are good with a hammer marcat but lets deal with the reality of the world. Climb out of your 4x4 and smell the starbucks.

So reflections marcat ....what didn't they poor enough cement? or hammer enough nails........maybe the grass was planted too early ?? really it's a cement building oh and the wood wing........leaky condo?? How?? fill us all in...........enough of the

I know
I've seen
I've heard

whah whah whah

#313 jklymak

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:22 AM

name calling owner of a unit. They'll look into it, get a professional to check out and hey if what I've been told and seen isn't true and I'm just wearing a real bad prescription


I think it is illegal to have your unit checked out by a professional in Canada... Darn blue laws....

#314 Guest_Marcat_*

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:34 AM

WOW
I didn't mean to have cap locks on I noticed when I was half way done and decided to leave it. You guys are right the peoeple buying the less attractive units facing the back with a cave like floorplan are buying for much less. That's like comparing a chrysler with a bmw.

Victoria is different as is Vancouver Island. If you think that the retiring baby boomers want to stay in eastern canada and china etc you have a little research to do. They didn't build Nanaimo the way they did to be ready for the 70,000 people that live there.

There will be another building boom and I would guess in less than 7 years. Not 15-25.

I guess some people live in gloom and doom (poor you)

I know you are good with a hammer marcat but lets deal with the reality of the world. Climb out of your 4x4 and smell the starbucks.

So reflections marcat ....what didn't they poor enough cement? or hammer enough nails........maybe the grass was planted too early ?? really it's a cement building oh and the wood wing........leaky condo?? How?? fill us all in...........enough of the

I know
I've seen
I've heard

whah whah whah


Its not like comparing a chrysler to a BMW, have you seen the new Challenger? take that any day over a Beemer :D :D - The point we are all trying to make is, those "bat cave like units" were 100k more at pre-sales which in theory is going to affect the value of ALL the units. I'm sure those aren't the only ones available.

Victoria is DIFFERENT...but our the driving forces behind our economy are not a bunch old folks moving here to retire, we are a resouce, tourism and government based economy. The resource sector has been hit hard, the WORLD pocket books have been hit had effecting tourism and the government is pinching the purse strings thanks to a decrease in revenues. In the past few years I believe the figure is somewhere around 1 in 3 jobs is construction based employment...

I don't think many of us live in doom in gloom, more like, reality and can see whats going on in the world around us.

Well, why would I climb out of my 4x4 and smell the starbucks? that stuff is disgusting! LOL I like it my 4x4, all warm and high up *rolls eyes*

As for leaky condo. I've been told by people associated with the building envelope they are very concerned about the longevity of materials and the way it was applied may not have been in the best and proper manner. I respect the individual(s) PROFESSIONAL opinions as they have been in the building envelope business for quite some time and know their business and are involved with a very very reputable firm. And what may appear on the outside as perfection, behind the scenes very well may be problematic. There is a lot to the blood and guts of a building of any shape or size that a bulk of the world does not realize or understand, and rightly so, its why you pay for professionals and their opinions when spending you're own money to build.

I sure hope they didn't just pour cement (is a dry powdery substance that is used as a binding agent for mortar and CONCRETE with the other aggregates added to it) into the building, if thats the case there is going to be some serious structural issues, I'm HOPING that they used CONCRETE to build the tower, base and parkade, but maybe they tried to cheap on a few dollars? On the note of mud, I've spoken with the placers and engineering firm associated with the project and understand there were numerous concerns about some of the pours and the suitability of the concrete being used (set times, sitting in the truck too long etc, depending on the mix of concrete and the additives used mud can be rendered useless in the mixers anywhere from 30 minutes to 3 hours when considering its suitability for structural work)

I really don't see how the grass will have any issues? lol, plant some new stuff it grows back

I've seen some of the finishing and was appalled that units were being handed over without all the trim, painting or fixtures being installed properly. On top of that some of the finishing that was in place was an obvious example of poor craftsmenship and why booms aren't all they are cracked up too be, while those of us in the business can make good money, the end product isn't always that great.

Overall I've talked and personally know several of the associated trades on site and there was concerns over some of the finishing materials used for their quality and long term durability.

Is there anything else you'd like me to say Deegrand? Although I'm sure you're just going to tell me I'm a pissed off ex employee or contractor. Dont worry Im not. If it were a great building, I'd be the first to say it was.

#315 yodsaker

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:47 AM

Real estate is cyclical and Victoria's cycle seems to be about 8 years from trough to peak. Those OB people who have offers 25-30% off their asking may have mistimed things or are still delusional about the state of the market.
It ain't worth what you say it is, it's worth what someone will actually pay.

#316 rjag

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:53 AM

It ain't worth what you say it is, it's worth what someone will actually pay.


Bingo you win the prize.

#317 concorde

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:20 PM

Victoria is different.


Provide some details as to why you feel that way.

#318 snub

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:44 PM

Article in the Goldstream Gazette, March 20:


Goldstream News Gazette
Langford developments slash prices

Reflections is offering bargain prices to unload its remaining units. The developer plans to sue original purchasers to recover costs.
Amy Dove/News staff




Reluctant buyers have some condo developers slashing their prices.

Reflections on Veterans Memorial Parkway put 40 of its 114 units on the auction block last week at up to a 40 per cent discount. And while Bear Mountain real estate isn’t going under the gavel, prices at the Finlayson Reach and St. Andrews Walk condo developments have dropped by 40 per cent too.

Seventy per cent of the units at Reflections were pre-sold, however, when housing prices slumped many purchasers walked away from their down-payments rather than pay the full market price, explained developer Andrew Khoo. Despite good interest at the auction only 15 units sold, he added.

With 25 units left to sell, the reduced prices — ranging from $199,900 to $400,000 — continue on a first-come-first-served basis, Khoo said.

As they sell, the developer plans to try and recover the difference in sale prices from the original purchaser through the courts due to a breach of contract.

“Basically it’s going to be a lawsuit,” he said.

It is for that reason those who stuck with their purchases shouldn’t be worried about their units losing value, he said.

“Obviously it’s not the best of situations,” Khoo said. “In the long run it’s not going to be a negative evaluation on their purchase and the markets will pick up again.”

Bear Mountain condo prices were reduced effective March 13. That means price drops between $52,500 and $344,000.

Of the current buildings at Bear Mountain 65 condo units remain unsold. The company is eager to sell those units so it can move on to the next project, the Highlander, said Dale Sproule, director of real estate. Changes in the market called for existing units to be reduced in price.

“The interest has stayed the same,” Sproule said. “People have been a little hesitant to purchase.”

As the market dictates, the prices will rise again, he said, but it’s a great time for buyers with lower interest rates and reduced housing prices. Bear Mountain is a long-term development, putting the developers in a unique situation, Sproule said.

“We are not a question of getting out of our buildings,” he said. “We need to get on to our next building.”

Not all developers are feeling the pressure to drop prices, though. While The Metro at Goldstream Station has sold eight of 45 units since October 2008, developer Bill Beadle sees no reason to drop prices. Units range from $300,000 to the low $400,000s.

“I don’t really feel that they are off that much,” Beadle said. “There is no slashing and burning (of prices) with me.”

The location is good and the units are large and well finished, he said. The price per square footage remains comparable to other developments with smaller units, he added.

Targeted at people downsizing, when the houses start to sell again, Beadle is confident people will be knocking on his door. Last week two units sold and there are preliminary offers on two more, he said.

The condos sit on 21,000-square-feet of commercial space — 19,000 of which is occupied. That is the real success story of Metro so far, Beadle said.

“We’re all different buildings and we all have different products so it’s interesting how we all sort of set our own market,” he said. “I am happy that only I have that luxury market under $400,000.”

reporter@goldstreamgazette.com

#319 househuntvictoria

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:26 PM

“Basically it’s going to be a lawsuit,” he said.

It is for that reason those who stuck with their purchases shouldn’t be worried about their units losing value, he said.


Now there's a leap of logic. You've heard it here first folks, have no fear if you bought and occupied a condo in this boom, you haven't lost value because the developer is going to sue! I'm thinking that the "half-brained investors" who bought thinking they couldn't lose are smarter than the half-brained developer who "thinks" suing the walk-aways equates to propping up the market. How do these people get financing for projects like this?

#320 spanky123

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:34 PM

Credit to HHV and Roger who both called a 40% reduction in condo prices last year.

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