486 replies to this topic

[concorde]

I am in business to make money, but I also must enjoy what I do. Those two are on the top of my list and are equally tied. I take pride in what I produce, but that comes second.

[D.L.]

The primary reason to be in business is to provide a beneficial service to society. If you do that the money will follow.

[jdsony]

Thank you, I'm glad there are some people realize money isn't the primary driver in life. If I were a developer obviously I'd be making money but there's no way I could do it without trying to make the best damn possible place to live for the money. The problem is I'm not a big enough asshole to make it in business.

I'd rather see communities find some developers with creativity and passion. It seems there's just too many people though, everything has to be mass produced and no one takes any time to have input to define what their home will be.

[mysage]

Most developers take pride in what they do and most operate on a smaller margin than most retailers and yet they have a much more significant risk. They are driven always by the bottom line. If the cost of anything goes up then they can either increase the price of their product or decrease the cost of building it. It is a fine balancing act and in the end it is really the consumer who calls the shots. Too high a price - no one buys. To cheap a product - no one buys.

We the consumer control the developers it really isn't the other way around. It is just that the consumer doesn't know it.

[mysage]

Does any one know what is going on with Royal Bay?
Has the rumoured sale completed yet ?

[VicHockeyFan]

Does any one know what is going on with Royal Bay?
Has the rumoured sale completed yet ?

NEW BIDS FOR ROYAL BAY LANDS

Jun 28, 2010

ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHUNKS OF WATER-FRONT REAL ESTATE IN THE GREATER VICTORIA AREA HAS GENERATED A LOT OF NEW BIDS, AFTER A POTENTIAL BUYER MISSED THEIR DEADLINE AND OPENED THE PROPERTY TO NEW BUYERS.

[...]

http://cfax1070.com/...hp?newsId=14171

[mysage]

I hear last night that somewhere in the press it was announced that another Royal Bay suitor , (Stateman Homes?) has dropped out of the picture. This must be at least 4 or 5 so called sales on this proerty that have fallen apart. Does anyone have an answer why so many can't seem to pull this deal together?

[Mike K.]

Yikes, look at the Royal Bay Builders website's estimated travel time from Royal Bay:

- Your new home is only 20 minutes to Downtown by car and 35 minutes by bike
- Public transit - regular downtown and university routes, just one block to bus stop
- Victoria International Airport - 35 minutes
- BC Ferries - 35 minutes
- Harbour to Harbour Flights to Vancouver - 20 minutes

Perhaps they should note that these travel times are between 12AM and 5AM

And for what its worth, the main project website is no longer active.

[mysage]

Can't believe everything that the advertising guys say BUT the fact remains that Royal Bay is well located and could be a major development that could change the face of Colwood. I have counted at least 4 different suitors for this property and am not sure why everyones backs away after doing their due diligence. Any ideas why?

[Lorenzo]

Any ideas why?

Because Colwood's books are a mess? Saunders inherited a sh*tstorm there!

[Mike K.]

^could be it.

[Sparky]

^ I shudder everytime I think of this potential project. I sure hope the folks that buy houses there are either retired or work in Duncan.

The yellow brick road to Victoria needs to be addressed before this developmet progresses.

The western and northern part of our communities have outgrown timely access to and from the city centre.

[mysage]

I agree with part of your post but not all. The growth in the western communities certainly makes accessing downtown more difficult but one wonders if that just means that a change of thinking is needed. Who says the western communities should just be the bedrooms for downtown? Langford has been outstanding in creating jobs and is developing a nice little downtown of its own. I see no reason to go downtown (unless I already had a job downtown). It is somewhat the chicken and the egg scenario. The people won't come without businesses and businesses won't come without people.

I think there must be far more to Royal Bays problems in securing a buyer than Colwoods internal mess. I think that the scope of the project is such that it is very long term play and this causes concerns for many of the smaller thinking developers. I think that Royal Bay needs long term plan encompassing more than just housing. Why couldn't it have its own commercial core and become a vibrant waterfront community instead of just tracts of housing with only a select few living on the water side.

I think it needs a visionary - someone who can see beyond the local problems and has a grand vision for the site. Maybe the right person/company just hasn't come along yet.

[Mike K.]

Langford has been outstanding in creating jobs and is developing a nice little downtown of its own.

Langford's job creation is limited to the service sector. There are few professional opportunities on the west shore and that trend is unlikely to change.

Fact of the matter is suburban development always suffers from a choke point (or points) between the suburbs and downtowns/centres of commerce and entertainment. In Vancouver HWY 1 can be a mess for everyone coming from the west. HWY 99 is a mess for everyone coming from the south. But people still continue to wait in queue because none of the suburbs can offer what most people need (employment, entertainment, quality dining, etc). Langford will definitely continue to develop a "downtown" presence, but it will only meet certain needs.

[mysage]

While I agree that most of Langfords jobs have been in the service sector who says that has to remain so. As an example - who would have thought that UVIC would have a campus on the Westshore one day?

My point about the viability of Royal Bay is that a developer with vision, time, money and chutzpah could provide a development that would not just be another housing tract providing commuters for downtown but a vibrant residential/commercial waterfront community that would keep people from needing to go downtown in the first place.

People want to live on Southern Vancouver Island and it is a case of local governments co operating with creative developers to create better visions.

it would seem to me that the 400+/- acres (on the waterfront) offers a blank canvas to someone who is can think outside the normal parameters of the development game

[aastra]

My point about the viability of Royal Bay is that a developer with vision, time, money and chutzpah could provide a development that would not just be another housing tract providing commuters for downtown but a vibrant residential/commercial waterfront community that would keep people from needing to go downtown in the first place.

I agree 100% with this. Normally I have no interest in what's going on in the suburbs but I've spent a lot of time musing about the entire gravel pit site. Maybe because it has the waterfront/beach aspect. Waterfronts can have so much more personality than landlocked areas (no offense to anyone who might be offended by that). A developed waterfront area can function as a legitimate community focus in ways that a big box power centre simply never could. Imagine the town of Sidney blended with the Selkirk community. A nice waterfront promenade; relatively narrow, walkable streets; small office buildings and mixed-use commercial buildings; urban architectural styles...

I also really like the fact that there's a natural view of the city and that the area is highly visible from the city, too.

Anyway, it just seems to have the potential to really represent the West Comms, in a positive way.

I really think the lower part should be called "Ocean Boulevard". I'm sure I've said that before. "Where are you living these days?" "We have a townhouse near Ocean Boulevard." "Where are you working these days? We just moved to a new office above Ocean Boulevard." Etc.

[gumgum]

I would just hate it if it ended up just another suburban residential area.

[mysage]

I agree 100% with this. Normally I have no interest in what's going on in the suburbs but I've spent a lot of time musing about the entire gravel pit site. Maybe because it has the waterfront/beach aspect. Waterfronts can have so much more personality than landlocked areas (no offense to anyone who might be offended by that). A developed waterfront area can function as a legitimate community focus in ways that a big box power centre simply never could. Imagine the town of Sidney blended with the Selkirk community. A nice waterfront promenade; relatively narrow, walkable streets; small office buildings and mixed-use commercial buildings; urban architectural styles...

I also really like the fact that there's a natural view of the city and that the area is highly visible from the city, too.

Anyway, it just seems to have the potential to really represent the West Comms, in a positive way.

I really think the lower part should be called "Ocean Boulevard". I'm sure I've said that before. "Where are you living these days?" "We have a townhouse near Ocean Boulevard." "Where are you working these days? We just moved to a new office above Ocean Boulevard." Etc.

Bingo!! That's my point. I live not too far from this gravel pit and have been amazed that no one has progressed beyond the "tire kicking" stage with it. I am sure there are problems with the site (like any development) but a really astute developer cannot miss the potential here. The question is - who has the vision, the financial clout and the nerve to tread where others refuse to go?

[Mike K.]

All good points.

Royal Bay is perhaps the most exciting of the big suburban subdivisions but is the original vision encompassing a wide variety of uses still the plan? The seesawing from one potential buyer to the next has me concerned that ultimately what we may end up with is a big developer with little time or patience for building a community centre and wishing only to capitalize on what sells immediately, and that's condos and houses (the last suitor was a mega housing outfit from Calgary).

Building a successful community centre/urban node takes decades, and lets face it, most developers want to capitalize on what is already available nearby and build only what they have to in order to satisfy home buyers (case in point, the highly skewed travel time to downtown from Royal Bay -- its as if the developers are telling potential buyers that commuting/driving to downtown is no inconvenience at all). Bear Mountain is a testament to the difficulty of building a comprehensive development that tries to provide a healthy mix of commercial and office space. It's beautiful on paper and in renderings, but making it all work out is a trying effort.

For some reason only the lots abutting the gravel pit have been developed. In other words, the gravel pit portion of the site has been completely untouched. Why is this? Wouldn't developers begin some form of preliminary work well ahead of ever building the first homes on the land? Perhaps there are contamination issues? Drainage issues? It's all a mystery but the lack of progress is a little disconcerting.

[mysage]

I agree with you Mike, the lack of progress on any sale of Royal Bay is disconcerting to some extent. I think that the perimeter lots have been sold first because they offered the best views with the least amount of work and thus it was easier for Leigh to convince local builders to go there first.

I also agree with you that it would be an absolute shame to see a developer come in and create nothing but single family homes. Surely someone would see the possibilities of the waterfront/commercial aspect and think beyond the norm.

I guess we will have to wait and see who, if anyone, has any exciting long term vision for this site.