513 replies to this topic

[2F2R]

>>>Surely someone would see the possibilities of the waterfront/commercial aspect and think beyond the norm<<<

Yes ... if only!

[Bernard]

I remain unhappy that the gravel pits were not zoned for heavy industrial, it was perfect for it and we are in desperate need of it in this region.

[Mike K.]

What drives the local demand for heavy industrial space? Lafarge?

I know that we once had a formidable forestry presence on the south island, but now other than ship-building (which is across the water at NADEN and along the upper harbour) I'm not sure what industry even exists here that would require land adjacent to the ocean.

[Lorenzo]

I guess we will have to wait and see who, if anyone, has any exciting long term vision for this site.

That leaves out just about anyone from the Westshore!

[mysage]

That leaves out just about anyone from the Westshore!

Now, now. Don't be cynical. The problem with having an imagination as a developer is convincing others that you have the right idea. Everyone has an opinion what you should do with your time,money and property and it can be a daunting task, particularly on large developments. My sisters and I have over the years renovated a couple of houses in the Vic West area that we inherited and every neighbour was an expert and City Hall listened to them all. Can you imagine what it would be like to get everyone on board on a project the size of Royal Bay? Maybe that's what is taking so long.

[Mike K.]

Come to think of it, have there been any community meetings and planning exercises with neighbours in recent years?

[mysage]

As mentioned earlier I live near there and I have never heard of any.

[Bernard]

Heavy industrial needs in this region are primarily for support of the city - with the existing infrastructure to the dock, this could be a location to ship out things like scrap metal and paper.

We also have needs to locations needed to do machining, iron/metal work, heavy equipment maintenance and more. This would be a good location for a specialty sawmill or a reman plant, we have the timber supply and there is water access for the raw material.

We need locations for storage of hazardous materials.

We also have a need for general industrial space for local specialized manufacturing, though this does not need to be heavy industrial. We also need a lot more warehouse space in this region. It is no surprise that Sobeys is building a warehouse on lands that are not within the zoning control of any local government.

The location is also only 3 to 4 km from the E and N line, with a heavy industrial use with a rail link, there would be many more rail line users and that would make the line more viable

[mysage]

While your facts may be correct I can't see this happening in an area that is surrounded by residential development. I think that the neighbours would raise hell with the City and it would be a non starter from the beginning.

Not knowing anything about the zoning at present but just roughy calculating 5 single family lots per acre and assuming there is 350 acres (after giving up some land for road ways,parks etc) to build on this means that a developer could create 1750 single family lots. If each were to conservatively sell in the 200,000 range this means the sell out to a developer on this project is at 350,000,000.

Now obviously this doesn't take into account whatever the purchase price of the land is, holding costs for the 10-15 years it would probably take to build this out, construction costs for the the infrastructure etc etc but this would seem a much easier and more luctrative deal for a developer than creating industrial lands.

I am sure that there are much more knowledgable people on VV than me as to costing and selling out a project of this nature but from my point of view (as a nearby resident) I would vote in favour of housing of some nature.

[aastra]

Haven't they already removed the pier that was there?

[jklymak]

Building a successful community centre/urban node takes decades, and lets face it, most developers want to capitalize on what is already available nearby and build only what they have to in order to satisfy home buyers (case in point, the highly skewed travel time to downtown from Royal Bay -- its as if the developers are telling potential buyers that commuting/driving to downtown is no inconvenience at all). Bear Mountain is a testament to the difficulty of building a comprehensive development that tries to provide a healthy mix of commercial and office space. It's beautiful on paper and in renderings, but making it all work out is a trying effort.

Does this ever work? Has any single developer ever built an urban node out in a suburban landscape? I admit it is a noble goal, but towns need to be built around jobs and transportation. I don't think you can just plan an urban node into place where none existed before.

[mysage]

I think that Bear Mountain is the closest and last example of an effort to do this. If you remember they built the golf course first to attract the people (and it did) and then the people were to attract the commercial/retail (and it didn't). If you remember Broadmead built their housing first and then built their commercial last and that seemed to work. I do know however that according to real estate agents at the time and even my own buying decision at the time sales were much slower than they anticipated because people felt that there were not enough services there to move there. The extra sales time for Broadmead cost the developer millions in interest.

In the case of the Selkirk waterway they seemed to build both at the same time and it worked for them.

Each development was a little different and one wonders is it the model or the execution of the model that determines the outcome?

[Sparky]

The extra sales time for Broadmead cost the developer millions in interest.

This project had a time line from the onset. There was no rush to develop. There was no interest hound to run from. The properties were fed to the builders strategically year after year, just like candy.

[mysage]

Sorry disagree. There was a time line and it was stalled on a number of occasions. Even if you are paying cash for something and don't have interest to pay the lost interest on having your cash out there with no return in a timely manner or your property not selling and not having the cash in hand that it would have brought in available to earn further interest is a loss in my opinion.

[Sparky]

Sorry disagree. There was a time line and it was stalled on a number of occasions. Even if you are paying cash for something and don't have interest to pay the lost interest on having your cash out there with no return in a timely manner or your property not selling and not having the cash in hand that it would have brought in available to earn further interest is a loss in my opinion.

Sorry, I do not understand.

[Mike K.]

Thanks, Bernard.

[Bernard]

While your facts may be correct I can't see this happening in an area that is surrounded by residential development. I think that the neighbours would raise hell with the City and it would be a non starter from the beginning.

Not knowing anything about the zoning at present but just roughy calculating 5 single family lots per acre and assuming there is 350 acres (after giving up some land for road ways,parks etc) to build on this means that a developer could create 1750 single family lots. If each were to conservatively sell in the 200,000 range this means the sell out to a developer on this project is at 350,000,000.

The land was zoned industrial, though what type I do not know.

It really was the absolute perfect place for heavy industrial. Flat and without any top soil or connection to water drainage and large enough to allow some significant businesses. It had a history of noise and dust so the neighbours were used to it.

[Mike K.]

It should be noted that before Royal Bay began developing parcels adjacent to the pit residential development was not as dense nor as close to the pit as it is today.

[LJ]

If the article in the TC about the development at Royal Bay comes to fruition it would be a great addition to the area. A commuter ferry to Victoria would be a great way to get downtown.

Would the marina they are proposing replace the proposed marina in the inner harbour or be as well as?
http://www.timescolo...9404/story.html

[mysage]

If the article in the TC about the development at Royal Bay comes to fruition it would be a great addition to the area. A commuter ferry to Victoria would be a great way to get downtown.

Would the marina they are proposing replace the proposed marina in the inner harbour or be as well as?
http://www.timescolo...9404/story.html

Looks like a "trial balloon" to me. There wasn't much meat to the story. Just someone who has a great idea but they don't even own the land and the land owner was un avialable at press time. Not sure why it even merits a front page placement as it is all a dream until someone puts up the money.