607 replies to this topic

[aastra]

 

The problem in Victoria is that you have a lot of retired people looking for something to do...

 

The curse of active & motivated retirees? We used to say increasing numbers of retirees would be a problem because they would require expensive care. Now we're saying increasing numbers of retirees are a problem because they're healthy and looking for stuff to do.

[Cassidy]

B.C.'s historic Special Events - ones like EXPO86, MUSIC91, 1994 Victoria Commonwealth Games, 2010 Vancouver Olympics, etc aren't designed, or meant to "break even", or otherwise guarantee infrastructure that can remain useful after the event is over.

 

These kinds of events are more about local and regional residents and governments state of mind, more indicative of the way the host city, and host province sees itself, and wants others to see us.

 

The events noted above made immeasurable changes in each of the areas they took place in, indeed EXPO and the Olympics made wholesale changes to the entirety of B.C. - both in how we view ourselves, and how the rest of the world views us.

 

Big special events go pretty deep mentally, at least in terms of how they reflect back on a city, region, or province ... more often than not, they result in an overall positive effect.

 

Things that happen after the event is over are often noted as reflecting on the event itself, but in reality, once a special event is over, it's over ... and things like a crumbling cycling track, and Chinese developers really don't have anything to do with the event that took place, how the event reflected back on the folks that hosted it, or how those hosts choose to remember the event and its impact on their community.

[aastra]

 

Big special events go pretty deep mentally, at least in terms of how they reflect back on a city, region, or province ... more often than not, they result in an overall positive effect.

 

I agree. But this is what I was getting at re: the risks of trying to throw a successful & memorable party all over again. 1994 wasn't that long ago. Sequels tend to be lame imitations.

[Cassidy]

.....1994 wasn't that long ago. Sequels tend to be lame imitations.....

By the time the games came around this time, it would be almost 30 years ... which is a lifetime in the realm of special events.

 

I'm not so sure there would be an effort to generate a sequel, or imitate '94 in any way, as with all new people you get all new ideas.

 

I was actually a fairly senior employee of the Commonwealth Games in '94, but wouldn't participate again simply because of age and other commitments ... thus somebody entirely new would fill the position I filled in '94.

I'm pretty sure you'd see that kind of "new blood" and equally new ideas across the board.

[todd]

The 1994 blue race line is still usable in some parts, could save money maybe just 5 year paint.

 

 

 

[spanky123]

The curse of active & motivated retirees? We used to say increasing numbers of retirees would be a problem because they would require expensive care. Now we're saying increasing numbers of retirees are a problem because they're healthy and looking for stuff to do.

 

Well they are certainly an important special interest group now. More so as the population continues to age and their numbers grow. 

[VicHockeyFan]

The 1994 blue race line is still usable in some parts, could save money maybe just 5 year paint.

 

 

 

They clearly should have used that paint on the bridge.

[Bingo]

We need make a few more Commonwealth countries. Is there anyone working on that?

[Nparker]

We need make a few more Commonwealth countries. Is there anyone working on that?

I am sure this is a top priority of Theresa May's government and she will undoubtedly get right on this as soon as the election is over.

[todd]

And Dr. Robin M. Richardson next election.

[AllseeingEye]

By the time the games came around this time, it would be almost 30 years ... which is a lifetime in the realm of special events.

 

I'm not so sure there would be an effort to generate a sequel, or imitate '94 in any way, as with all new people you get all new ideas.

 

I was actually a fairly senior employee of the Commonwealth Games in '94, but wouldn't participate again simply because of age and other commitments ... thus somebody entirely new would fill the position I filled in '94.

I'm pretty sure you'd see that kind of "new blood" and equally new ideas across the board.

....in that case please clarify something if you can.

 

I've heard anecdotally from several people over the years, including some of those involved in 1994, that we 'apparently' had an opportunity to keep the temporary seating at Centennial Stadium courtesy of the American firm that supplied it - all 30,000+ of the seats - for a ridiculously paltry amount, as in the (very) low 6-figures.

 

Have/had you heard that story and if so and - particularly if it is true - do you any insight as to why in the God's name we turned down the opportunity to literally acquire a stadium for about half the cost of a condominium in 1994 dollars?

[lanforod]

Was it good seating? Maybe it wasn't worth it. By now, it'd likely need to be replaced, if it was all outside and not sheltered.

[AllseeingEye]

/\....as I recall it was tubular aluminum construction which certainly would more than suffice here given our mild weather: consider the large stadiums in the rest of the country east of Vancouver (Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg etc.,) that are all uncovered and which face far, far harsher weather conditions that anything Victoria could ever conjure up.

 

Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium (60,000 seats) was built almost 40 years ago and is an 'open to the elements' facility which endures much hotter summers not to mention real winters, unlike here. I know lots of people who've attended CFL and other events there and other similar stadiums and never complained. In any event if the rumor is true the initial outlay was so ridiculously cheap replacing the seats more than once over the life of the facility would've been more than worth the expense. As I recall the actual dollar figure bandied about was in the vicinity of $100K USD - which is nothing for a 30,000-seat structure.

[Cassidy]

Indeed it was quality seating, and an offer was made to allow purchase at what was essentially cost.

The story was that the seating company made their entire nut back on the actual rental, and dismantling and shipping the seats back across the border apparently would have cost far more than it was worth to the seating company ... despite the fact they wound up doing it anyway.

We were told that it was actually UVIC that didn't want the seating, and it's their stadium.
As to why they didn't want it, I don't know ... like all special events, the Games folded up pretty quickly once they'd ended, and staff vanished just as quickly - along with any factual details.

[spanky123]

^ Likely didn't meet earthquake specifications and/or the land it was sitting on was in the EDPA!

[AllseeingEye]

Indeed it was quality seating, and an offer was made to allow purchase at what was essentially cost.

The story was that the seating company made their entire nut back on the actual rental, and dismantling and shipping the seats back across the border apparently would have cost far more than it was worth to the seating company ... despite the fact they wound up doing it anyway.

We were told that it was actually UVIC that didn't want the seating, and it's their stadium.
As to why they didn't want it, I don't know ... like all special events, the Games folded up pretty quickly once they'd ended, and staff vanished just as quickly - along with any factual details.

Thanks for clarifying and yes now that you mention it I do seem to recall that it was in fact UVic that dug in its heels. Too bad IMO. Obviously we'll never get another crack at a brand new facility of that size or scope for a price amounting to little more than a cup of coffee.

Edited by AllseeingEye, 01 June 2017 - 07:25 AM.

[Cassidy]

Based on how quickly UVIC began construction on the additional 3 playing fields to the North East and East of Centennial Stadium once the games were over, at the time I presumed the grandstands just didn't mesh with UVIC's previously established plans for the future of that quadrant.

 

Too, it remains to be seen as to whether UVIC could ever have considered hosting any big events there after the Games, as things like rock and pop shows are far too loud for the residential homes numbering in the hundreds, if not thousands in the immediate area.

Even the '94 Games themselves caused countless noise and traffic complaints from residents around UVIC throughout the run of the event.

 

But it sure was a fantastic looking stadium while it was up. The Opening and Closing Ceremonies, and the track events that took place in between were pure magic.

[tedward]

B.C.'s historic Special Events - ones like EXPO86, MUSIC91, 1994 Victoria Commonwealth Games, 2010 Vancouver Olympics, etc aren't designed, or meant to "break even", or otherwise guarantee infrastructure that can remain useful after the event is over.

 

Actually in all the reports around the Rio World Cup and Olympics I remember seeing a documentary and reading several articles on what makes a "good" games from an economic standpoint. What stood out was that host cities planning major infrastructure upgrades anyway were able to use these sorts of events to maximize what they could get. The notion that we shouldn't expect legacy infrastructure ensures that we don't get value for the money spent.

 

Regional transit (including rail), affordable and market housing, stadium and recreational facilities upgrades can all be tied into a hosting and should be. The 1994 games were disgraceful IMO because they left such a pitiful legacy. Why not build a better city on the back of a successful international event?

[shoeflack]

The 1994 games were disgraceful IMO because they left such a pitiful legacy. Why not build a better city on the back of a successful international event?

 

I don't know about that. The Games were sold as a "small-sized" event, so I don't think the expectation was that grandiose infrastructure would come out of the Games.

 

That being said, Saanich Commonwealth Place is an ideal venue legacy. A competition pool that was turned into a vibrant rec centre, while retaining the ability to host major international meets (i.e. 2006 Pan Pacific's). UVic was able to acquire significant student housing infrastructure.

 

From a financial standpoint, there still exists a fund from the original legacy. That fund was pivotal behind the PISE development at Camosun (and still funds part of their budget), and the subsequent promotion of the CRD as a base for national team programs. Just look at how vibrant the amateur sport community is now...countless national team programs are either based here or train here. That put a lot of dollars into the local economy.

 

The impact of 1994 still resonates strongly to this day. I don't see how anyone could argue those Games as having left a "pitiful" legacy.

Edited by shoeflack, 01 June 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[Cassidy]

 The 1994 games were disgraceful IMO because they left such a pitiful legacy. 

You're apparently looking for a physical legacy ... (which is indeed there if you look for it.)

 

But more importantly from my perspective is to acknowledge the amazing legacy left in the form of folks memories and attitudes.

Ask any Commonwealth Games volunteer (for example) about their experience, and almost to a tee they'll tell you if was one of the best times of their life, and that they'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

But as Shoeflack pointed out, those physical remnants and legacies that you seek are around as well ... with the touchstone for the '94 games being the still flourishing Saanich Commonwealth Place.

 

We here on the left coast changed in a most positive way, and for good as a result of EXPO86, The Commonwealth Games '94, and the Vancouver Winter Olympics ... sometimes the real legacy of a special event isn't seen simply in bricks and mortar.