317 replies to this topic

[Caramia]

Cool pod casts of City Council meetings! Great idea!
Do you plan to do more?

[Lorne Carnes]

Thanks Rob

So it appears that there was no formal process used to determine the merit of groups chosen to be included in the RFP.

As you've pointed out, adding the AGGV makes sense. They've been at this for some time and their need for a downtown site has been identified in various City and CRD documents. The inclusion of the Children's Museum has me stumped however.

The concept seems very popular in both the States and Canada, and it's difficult to argue against more affordable activities for families... but this local group appears to have little money and no business plan.

Do you know if these two organizations were invited to submit proposals specific to the Crystal Garden Block? I can't seem to find any mention of such on either of their web sites.

[ted - 3 - dots]

Cool pod casts of City Council meetings! Great idea!
Do you plan to do more?

---- To all ---------

- I've been retired for the past 4-yrs

I'd like to get active again .


Actually I'd like to build a collective of people
who are interested ... in being active

;{-


Recording , Production , and posting ...

( all fun job's ,,, that I totally enjoy )


---------- Contact me off-line ,
( if any of you are interested )


I'm at a book-fair table ( sept 13-14th )

we can talk there ...!


( King & Qudra Streets ) South-East of the Old BRICK
now called Fair-Way Market ...?


not sure about the time's ...! ( 11am - 3pm )...?

ted... <<< write off line for more info >>>


.

[Rob Randall]

Thanks Rob

So it appears that there was no formal process used to determine the merit of groups chosen to be included in the RFP.

As you've pointed out, adding the AGGV makes sense. They've been at this for some time and their need for a downtown site has been identified in various City and CRD documents. The inclusion of the Children's Museum has me stumped however.

The concept seems very popular in both the States and Canada, and it's difficult to argue against more affordable activities for families... but this local group appears to have little money and no business plan.

Do you know if these two organizations were invited to submit proposals specific to the Crystal Garden Block? I can't seem to find any mention of such on either of their web sites.

The Request For Proposals was only for experienced land developers, so yes there was a rigourous process to weed out the unqualified.

The Children's Museum does have a business plan of sorts (I assume) but it's impossible to know the figures until it's known what the terms of the building it inhabits will be. The Children's Museum people first contacted me a couple of years ago. They have some funding and some smart and committed people advising them, but so did the BC Experience so take that as you will.

[aastra]

Is it just me or is there more than a tad of hypocrisy in this comment from Aria's representative?

This rapidly developing Humboldt Valley neighbourhood needs to have a balance of green space, and structures. The current proposal to develop Cridge Park upsets that balance; not to mention the proposal to greatly increase the density at the former site of the Crystal Court Motel.

So has nobody come to terms yet with the exact scale of the opportunity that was lost on the Crystal Court site? You know, put the art gallery on the motel site and put the children's museum on the flatiron site, and leave the park and bowling green as is?

If Aria was evil before it was built but now it's wonderful because people are living in it, then it's safe to assume that the Crystal Court condo building would have undergone the same evolution (just as every new building in Victoria does).

The separation between Aria and the Crystal Court was pretty much perfect by default, and there was no need to insert a lame, purpose-built green space in the middle of it because the park and the bowling green represented all of the (rather unique) green space that area could ever need. Just gussy up the park a bit and you're done.

Dare I say it, but only in Victoria could this situation have been botched. Folks (the city included) need to see the big picture ASAP. The flatiron site and the Crystal Court site provide enough real estate between them to do anything that we might have wanted to do down there. But supremely boneheaded politicking has screwed everything up yet again.

Everything is adversarial in Victoria. There's no vision, and there's no spirit of cooperation. And the missed opportunities just pile up.

[Ms. B. Havin]

^ Fully agree, aastra. And good question re. Aria's representative. What's the source of that comment, by the way? From a previous T-C article, or City Hall docs?

[Nparker]

I agree as well. The Crystal Court boondoggle is one of the worst I can remember in recent city hall missed opportunities.

[Lorne Carnes]

Sorry Rob

I wasn't clear in my question about formal process. It was the Children's Museum and AGGV as the lone benefactors of the RSP I was referring to.

Can you confirm that any formal process was followed by Council or staff to determine which organizations might receive a benefit of land and money from the development of the City's properties on the Crystal Garden Block?

My follow up question was if these two organizations have subsequently been invited to submit site specific proposals to the land developers through Colliers?

[Kapten Kapsell]

Interestingly, the plaza area in front of 780 Humbolt and neighbours, is about 18 000 sq feet in area, though there are another 10 000 sq feet along Fairfield as well. The area of the Cridge Park green space is about 22 000 sq feet.

The new developments on Humbolt have given us more new public space than the existing park........

I'd personally prefer to see a tower developed on the Budget/National car rental lots *before* the redevelopment of Cridge Park. However, if Cridge Park is redeveloped, my top candidate for replacement park space would be the under-utilized grassy area at Fort/Quadra (adjacent to View Towers). While admittedly close to Pioneer Square, it could certainly be a nice 'stopping place' for those walking through Antique Row.

[Ms. B. Havin]

^ But that's not public (city-owned) land, is it? I thought it belonged to whoever the folks are who own View Towers...???

[G-Man]

^ Yup.

[martini]

Bowlers' lease extended one year

Times Colonist

Friday, September 05, 2008

Lawn bowlers can continue to play in downtown Victoria after city councillors agreed yesterday to extend their lease for one more year.

Following a discussion behind closed doors, Coun. Pam Madoff said the lease will be extended for one year on the lawn bowling green tucked in behind Crystal Garden. The city leases the green to the Canadian Pacific Lawn Bowling Club for $1 a year.

Meanwhile, studies will continue with a view to transforming the area into a "cultural precinct."

The city plans to develop city-owned land contained in the lawn bowling green and the adjacent Cridge Park at the corner of Blanshard and Belleville streets. Possible uses include a children's museum or an art gallery.

Also, up for development, likely into commercial space, is a wedge-shaped lot at the corner of Humboldt and Douglas streets now used as a car-rental parking lot.

Madoff said the development plans do not exclude the possibility of keeping the lawn bowling green.

"There is room for all of it to happen," she said.
© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008

[Ms. B. Havin]

Consummate politician. Whichever way the wind blows, there she is.

[thant pix]

I agree with some of the earlier posts that said that the art gallery and children's museum should be on the inner harbour off Wharf St.. I think that the north parking lot there is the natural place for a full size art gallery, not an auxiliary one, plus either a children's museum or maritime museum. These would of course connect directly with Bastion Square.
...On viewing the proposed Cridge park refurbishment proposal graphic, I was impressed by the potential increase in pedestrian connectivity, as well as the children's playground, horseshoe pitch, and opening up the lawn bowling to yoga, croquet, bocce and tai chi.

[Rob Randall]

I've been looking into the Children's Museum/Art Gallery concept closely and have been talking with a lot of the stakeholders involved. I'm realizing that they don't fit together as harmoniously as many people initially thought. Due to the differences in mandate, demographics and infrastructure requirements, only a small percentage of the space can be shared. For example, they will still require separate kitchen facilities. Security is another concern. A large component of the Children's museum will be an indoor water play park yet water is a grave concern to a gallery; they spend a lot of money keeping humidity out of the gallery environment. This is not to say a partnership won't work, only that it will be more complex than some think. The primary shared space would be the lobby, yet the art gallery has said all along that even in a shared-use building, a unique, stand-alone identity, particularly at the entryway is key to the gallery's marketing strategy.

[Lorne Carnes]

Thanks Rob

It sounds like these these organizations are getting a little ahead of themselves. They do not have a site to share.

Cridge Park is still a park. Council has not given this land up and is committed to a full public process before any land use change would be considered. In light of the growing opposition to any plan to build on this park by the local community it would seem that these discussions are moot.

I'm assuming the only reason a partnership is even being considered is because of the non-offer of Cridge Park. If you take that notion out of the mix stand alone facilities make a whole lot more sense for both.

Art Gallery supporters seem to prefer the Apex site, Centennial Square or the waterfront. The need for a downtown location has already been well documented. Proceeds from the sale of the Apex site could be used to build on site or off.

A Children's Museum needs to go where the families are. The new Town and Country Mall springs to mind. Intersection of all the major transportation routes to the West Shore, Saanich Peninsula, downtown and Gordon Head, well served by public transit and already a natural destination for young families (Walmart). As the regions largest municipality Saanich is overdue for it's fair share of publicly funded 'cultural amenities'.

[G-Man]

^ The Children's museum must be downtown not in the car oriented suburbs.

[Lorne Carnes]

There's a good reason why the big box stores are sucking the life out of downtown. Cars are bad but young families still drive them. They have their reasons.

A Children's Museum located downtown won't get families living in Langford out of their cars. They just won't go. If you want them to visit you have to make it convenient with loads of free parking. Sorry.. but that's how it is. Hence the recent Go Figure! exhibit in the Mayfair Mall.

[jklymak]

I would think any children's museum needs to be downtown, near the tourists. I would be surprised if a locals-only museum could be viable.

[G-Man]

There's a good reason why the big box stores are sucking the life out of downtown.

Big box stores are not sucking the life out of downtown. Downtown is 100 times more vibrant than it was in the early 90's when I moved here. For lease signs are rare. So not sure what you are talking about.

I don't think we need to have a children's museum hinge on the kids of Langford. I mean should we move the museum out there too?