10 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

Community Court is a new approach to justice that has been in place in New York for several years and has just started as a pilot project in Vancouver. Victoria needs this too, and I hope you will come to this forum:

COMMUNITY COURT FORUM

Join A-Channel Senior Reporter Stephen Andrew, BC Provincial Court Chief Judge Hugh Stansfield, Interim Victoria Police Chief Bill Naughton, and VIHA Chief Medical Health Officer Dr. Richard Stanwick, for "There Are Consequences," a Forum on Community Courts.

This free forum will take place on Wednesday, May 21st, at City Council Chambers (2nd Floor of City Hall) from 6:30 to 8:30 pm.

Community Courts take a problem-solving approach to non-violent crime, attempting to address the underlying causes. This model provides judges with increased sentencing options to combine punishment with help.

For more info., call Michael Butterfield at 382-4529.

20 Centennial Square
Victoria, BC
V8W 1P7
T (250)386-2238
F (250)386-2271
info@downtownvictoria.ca

[Holden West]

Seems like an idea worth bumping this thread for.

[Rorschach]

It's definitely a good idea since it has worked in some communities already and -- if the judge is on top of things -- very good at weeding out real criminals from people with a drug problem and really want to get help.

It won't have the slightest impact on the mentally ill, so a large part of our homeless issues won't be affected by such changes.

I'm for it wholeheartedly. I just hope that the judges are willing to surrender some of their unfettered authority and will let this happen.

[Caramia]

I don't know, it seems to me a lot of real criminals are also people with drug problems who want help, and/or are mentally ill. Would a community court stop people who have done a crime from being institutionalized because of a drug problem or mental illness?

/edit I just noticed you said "non violent crime" specifically. I'm assuming you mean like graffiti or injecting drugs on a public street. Not theft?

[Rorschach]

What I'm trying to say is that if the main reason someone is a criminal is a drug problem and they want help then Community Court is beneficial -- if only for the CC's ability to enforce the drug treatment. Weren't they saying that most of the drug treatment programs are voluntary and criminals would get into treatment only for as long as it took to get their case kicked and then walk out of treatment. In the Community Court they hold your case over you until you complete the drug treatment, then they kick it and you have to agree to this arrangement before the Community Court will take your case. It's a little better coordination of the carrot and stick.

[Caramia]

But then what is to stop a criminal from claiming that the only reason he is a criminal is because of his addiction just so he can stay out of jail? Or if someone needs rehab and decides to jump the wait list by committing a crime?

I'd definitely support it in the case of victimless crimes, like soliciting, or drug injection in a public place - because there's an obvious link there. But someone who commits a break and enter, for instance, is a thief in my eyes, and needs to go to jail. The fact that they may also be an addict doesn't change the reality that they decided to support their habit by going into someone's house and taking what wasn't theirs. For people who decide to prey on others, I don't support get out of jail cards, regardless of their excuse for doing it.

I guess where I am coming from is that I have known rather too many junkies in my day, and I'd say less that half of them are also criminals. Just as of the alcoholics I've known, not all of them beat their spouses. The incidents are higher, yes. But if some can manage to poison themselves without becoming predators, those who cross the line need to be held accountable. I'm not against court mandated detox at all. But I like the 12 step way of doing things where one of the steps involves making amends. To me, part of amends includes paying your debt to society for whatever crimes you have committed.

[Rob Randall]

Some more notes in my thoughts about the Victoria Court. All of this is obviously opinion.

We are in an awkward spot where we aren't Vancouver's size / volume of court cases BUT we have an extraordinarily large "high risk" population as a proportion of the Region's size. An attempt was made to have a community court in Victoria and a small number of people continue to have a Police-flag on them that if a charge is recommended it goes through community court. But in reality cases, the very few of them, that are forwarded to community court end up in a normal court room because of scheduling issues, and a lack of community court resources.

There are enough insignificant repetitious summary - that is, less seriou - cases in the Capital Region that a community court could operate very easily full time. This would allow, as in Vancouver where it has proved successful for the most part, to engage people into resources but also place binding conditions on them to follow through with those same resources. The duty of Police and Crown to provide such intricate reports is also minimized for community court, to an extent, and in the event a person intends to plead not guilty or wants a full trial the traditional court system is still available.

Victoria also lacks Judges and Sherriffs. These cause separate issues but ultimately lead to delays in trials. First appearances right now are about seven weeks after arrest if it is a Criminal case from Police, and trial is nine months or more later. There have been several cases postponed for lack of human resources lately.

The lack of funding for legal aid has also created challenges for some people appearing in court, and has extended the time for some people to be tried in the first instance with the lack of a lawyer.

Finally the court here demands incredibly thorough reports for charge approval - BC already has a high standard and Victoria goes even further. This means Police / Community Corrections / Corrections etc are frequently tied up on administration at the head end of a case and the Crown consequently becomes far too dismissive of cases when a lock down case isn't available immediately.

Perfect world we need more of everything at the court. Court rooms, judges, lawyers on both sides and Sherriffs.

 

 

So if we had more of those lawyers, judges, sheriffs, courtrooms etc. the court system would be way more efficient and effective, cutting down on the revolving-door justice system--meaning we wouldn't need as many judges, sherrifs, courtrooms etc....

 

I hate that eight years after I attended that forum mentioned up top and first learned about the program, and years after Victoria City Councillors went to New York City to see their community court in action--the system is still as dysfunctional as ever.

Edited by Rob Randall, 16 August 2016 - 02:55 PM.

[57WestHills]

So if we had more of those lawyers, judges, sheriffs, courtrooms etc. the court system would be way more efficient and effective, cutting down on the revolving-door justice system--meaning we wouldn't need as many judges.....

Hahahaha yes a certain irony in my post I suppose.

[todd]

If the Canadian prison system was framed more like the Japanese military style prison system, less repeat offenders, less crime, people actually come out “reformed”.

Edited by todd, 16 August 2016 - 06:06 PM.

[Rob Randall]

Hahahaha yes a certain irony in my post I suppose.

No, I totally get it. If someone committed an offence and they appeared in court in a matter of hours rather than months there wouldn't be such a disconnect between the offender and the offence. Do defendants even remember why they're in court?

[LJ]

If the Canadian prison system was framed more like the Japanese military style prison system, less repeat offenders, less crime, people actually come out “reformed”.

There are many examples of "better" systems of incarceration, our own military prisons are similar to the one portrayed in the film. Germany also has a viable model of incarceration that seems to work very well. I never understood how letting people, more in the US than here I think, hang around in gangs doing nothing for long periods of time is supposed to do anything but further educate them in criminal ways. I would offer a convicted criminal the choice of doing 10 years in a regular prison or 2 years in a military prison. Most, I think, would choose the lesser time, the cost per day would be way less and the recidivism rate would be greatly reduced.