1461 replies to this topic

[zoomer]

Unusual not to be friends with your neighbours, but in this case it's a good thing Barrister.

Based on your comment ”We were in a larger group of people and I was rather shocked that this idea was meet with very vocal support” I incorrectly assumed this group also included friends as there isn't much in the way of neighborhood or community gatherings with Covid. I apologized for my incorrect assumption.

We need to build bridges, heal past and present wounds and commit to it in a fair way. Between ethnic groups and economic groups because the divide is undeniable.

I'm drafting a proposal right now I'm hoping to bring to City Council by spring at the latest. To alleviate the impact on downtown by the drug and homeless crisis, we should create a large urban oasis retreat and treatment center and what is now Government House. Downtown is the economic driver for the region, we can't kill the Golden Goose, and the absolute worst place to put people with mental and drug addiction challenges in right smack dab in the middle of the greatest population density in the region, not to mention the most expensive land. Rockland, meanwhile has a very low population density and far less automobile traffic, the presence of which is a significant risk for those who are impaired with drugs, not to mention the driver's themselves. Government House has plenty of land, a huge building with facilities and kitchens and even areas that can be safely designated for camping outdoors, all within a secure, fenced location. Like that popular treatment farm on the peninsula, they could also grow fruits and vegetables and sell them at the nearby Moss Street market.

I know NIMBYs may kill this idea in order to have the challenges faced by thousands instead of hundreds, so my alternate plan if that fails is to suggest Government House be turned over to the First Nations.

Lieutenant Governor is such a meaningless colonial legacy I can't see it surviving more than a couple more decades. Why not just give Janet Austin a nice office downtown and turn over the land to the rightful owners to do as they wish. Ideally it would remain open to the public, perhaps as a place to learn about indigenous culture and history. I bet the the main building would be far more open to the public than it is now. Imagine the importance of such a significant step towards reconciliation, mind blowing! Imagine this land being a center celebrating indigenous culture. If the First Nations opened it up to the public it would be an incredible learning opportunity, nevermind probably the biggest tourist draw on Vancouver Island. Think the Polynesian Cultural Centre, but NOT a colonial Disneyland version like you see in Hawaii, but the real deal.

Anyways, I'd love to see either of these visions come true for Rockland, I consider it my hood. If anyone is interested in knowing more, including how we might best engage with all stakeholders, please DM me.

[m3m]

My neighbour has quite seriously suggested that since the rules of the game have changed and that everything is becoming race based that we should accept this new division of society and it is time for a white person party to represent the interests of white people.

I grew up on believing in the equality of all people so this took me aback, We were in a larger group of people and I was rather shocked that this idea was meet with very vocal support. This may be a road that ends badly.

What did you say to your neighbour when they said this? I certainly hope that you or one of the other people present loudly chastised this abhorrent idea.

It’s very important that people stand up and denounce this sort of behaviour when it is on display. Silence is the same as approval in many cases.

[zoomer]

Not sure if this thread is off topic but it’s definitely just rambling now?
.

The connection now is Government House becoming a cultural centre, perhaps building a new museum on-site where the First Nations art currently on display at the Museum can be moved up the road a mile or so.

[Matt R.]

They also just had a posting for Head of Indigenous collections and repatriation. Same pay grade.
 

That seems like terrible pay when dishwashers are making $45k a year.

[todd]

The connection now is Government House becoming a cultural centre, perhaps building a new museum on-site where the First Nations art currently on display at the Museum can be moved up the road a mile or so.

I’m just going to play a video, play at 25 minutes in: https://youtu.be/WqSIXgLcg_0

[zoomer]

Wow.. that was brilliant Todd, thanks for sharing. Imagine an honest, fair retelling of history, I certainly wasn't taught this when I was learning about the Gold Rush in high school. Back then it was told as brave adventurers seeking their fortune and overcoming the environment. It makes me appreciate the importance of telling the full (and ongoing) story if the museum has an exhibit on mining again. I can't imagine anyone viewing that video clip and saying it's not a fair representation of events.

We often hear the First Nation land acknowledgements at the meeting of public events and meeting. It feels at times it had become obligatory. Imagine if we to reflect even for a minute in a more meaningful way.

That's what the Signs of Lekwungen us all about: https://www.victoria...-lekwungen.html

Fron the pdf at that link:

"whu-SEI-kum, “place of mud”, marked wide tidal mudflats and some of the best clam beds on the coast. These flats were buried when the area was filled in to construct the Empress Hotel. This
place was also one end of a canoe portage. The portage could be
used to avoid the harbour entrance during heavy seas by cutting
through from the eastern side of what is now Ross Bay Cemetery.
Along the route, arrowheads and other stone tools are still found,
reminding us that the lowlands were rich for hunting. When housing
development began, the lower elevations were left for market
gardens and nurseries until after the Second World War."

I believe those mud flats were also used as a garbage dump for Victoria as well. Consider that.. a rich source of food for generations, if not centuries - turned into a garbage dump and then the Empress Hotel built on top. And we wonder why colonial statues get toppled..

[todd]

^Also Captain Cook was just fibreglass unlike the bronze original

[Barrrister]

M3M  I never say much of anything these days since I have advanced COPD. 

 Breathing with oxygen is about as much as I can manage most days. 

 

On the other hand I dont bother shutting down any number of your or Zoomers ideas either. 

[Dexter]

Civil service pay rates are dismal. Benefits are good as well at vacation days. For me to do an equivalent job in the bcgeu it’s a 25% pay cut.

That seems like terrible pay when dishwashers are making $45k a year.

[Barrrister]

The total package for many civil servant positions is actually rather good  especially when considering tenure and retirement benefits. Not  everyone's cup of tea,

[zoomer]

M3M I never say much of anything these days since I have advanced COPD.
Breathing with oxygen is about as much as I can manage most days.

On the other hand I dont bother shutting down any number of your or Zoomers ideas either.

Why would you? We don't espouse racist ideas, unlike your neighbours. Who depending on where they live.. may be mine as all - gross. I dunno, even if I was unable to speak I'd like to think I'd find a way of expressing my dismay at comments about starting a White People Party. Like maybe leaving that party or street gathering immediately in an agitated huff; by having a small chalkboard where I could express my views or invest in tech that could translate my text into a computer voice like Stephen Hawking had.

Easy for me to say though. I know those things can be expensive, and you likely have enough on your plate already.

[Barrrister]

I think that you might have missed my main point. There is a real danger in the game of identity politics that seems to be developing. I am not saying that you have done so Zoomer but we have all heard people describing and lumping present day people into this group of :"White Settlers".  The last thing you want is for a large group of people to actually start to identify themselves as White Settlers. 

 

I think we have major challenges ahead for future generations and it may be time to figure out how to unify people rather than divide them. Before you write a two page responce, really think about how we can move ahead to avoid the horrible divisions that we see in the U.S. 

 

By the way your comments as to walking out in a huff are incredibly insensitive 

and completely offensive to say to someone with advanced COPD. Making remarks to someone who can neither walk or huff easily is just bulling.

[Dexter]

Correct me if I’m wrong but we outlawed the WPP (by another acronym) a while ago…

My neighbour has quite seriously suggested that since the rules of the game have changed and that everything is becoming race based that we should accept this new division of society and it is time for a white person party to represent the interests of white people.

I grew up on believing in the equality of all people so this took me aback, We were in a larger group of people and I was rather shocked that this idea was meet with very vocal support. This may be a road that ends badly.

Edited by Klapecki, 21 November 2021 - 04:45 PM.

[todd]

You could try using this soundbite: https://youtu.be/lFmhRLiYho0

[spanky123]

The museum has posted a job for a Modernization Project Director, which pays $93k-$123k annually.

 

Have to reward the loyal supporters.

[spanky123]

The indigenous perspective is that the existing displays did not capture the broad scope of native cultures in bc as it was focused on Haida and Kwakwaka’wak totem cultures. And that the exhibits had limited native input on how they were designed and laid out. Natives would like to see their material culture displayed by nation, not by artifact type.
 

 

Thanks for this Klapecki.  I had been told a while back that the reason why most of the exhibits were Haida was because they had conquered most of the nations in the coastal regions over the years and thus most of the cultural artifacts that remained were theirs. If that isn't the case then I would agree with you in that there should be broad representation which highlights the different cultures an their practices. 

[zoomer]

I think that you might have missed my main point. There is a real danger in the game of identity politics that seems to be developing. I am not saying that you have done so Zoomer but we have all heard people describing and lumping present day people into this group of :"White Settlers". The last thing you want is for a large group of people to actually start to identify themselves as White Settlers.

I think we have major challenges ahead for future generations and it may be time to figure out how to unify people rather than divide them. Before you write a two page responce, really think about how we can move ahead to avoid the horrible divisions that we see in the U.S.

By the way your comments as to walking out in a huff are incredibly insensitive
and completely offensive to say to someone with advanced COPD. Making remarks to someone who can neither walk or huff easily is just bulling.

Oh my goodness, sincere apologies Barrister. I honestly had no clue you are unable to walk. I just meant leave in a huff, whether that's by using a wheelchair, walking, helicopter, etc. Just kidding about the helicopter, trying to keep things light here Barrister!

And the expression 'huff' I meant in terms of displaying clear agitation and disagreement. Nothing to do with breathing challenges. But I can see why you were offended and I apologize. I feel like Larry David, having totally put my foot in my mouth and causing great offense.

No one wants racial divide, which is why we have to confront white supremacy using whatever abilities we have and by not denying obvious truths about our past. Hey I'm not a big fan of 'white settlers' either - as long as we can get on with meaningful work to improve everyone's lives and futures.

Sorry once again Barrister - I owe you one. DM me if you want me to mow your yard one day, it's the least I can do.

[spanky123]

Klapecki makes some good points about the museum needing an upgrade and covid being a good time to do it. So why not just say that? Why introduce colonialism, hate and racism as the reasons for the update? This could have been handled far more professionally  and without the drama. As Chief Sam has said there has been a backlash against first nations which I think was entirely predictable. The museum is going to lose patrons and funding and it will likely not be possible to earn that back.

 

Completely unnecessary.

[On the Level]

That’s a pretty obvious sign that your friends and neighbours are racists 

 

Have you been denied a job because of the colour of your skin?   Have you had to take a "different test" for job entry because of your gender?

[Nparker]

...I think we have major challenges ahead for future generations and it may be time to figure out how to unify people rather than divide them.

There has been very little of this in the reconciliation conversations to date. As an example, use of the term "settlers" is much more divisive than it is unifying.