106 replies to this topic

[Ms. B. Havin]

I wonder if Simon Nattrass, age 19 and planning to run for mayor of Victoria, would sit down with Dallas Henault, age 25 and planning to run against provincial NDP leader Carole James for the Victoria-Beacon seat, could sit down together to discuss what they, as two young people, see in Victoria's future. I'd also like to see Dean Fortin do this.

Those would be interesting conversations. Maybe Nattrass would rather talk to James, but then so would Fortin. But I'd like to see how either of them would deal with the issues around partisanship and age.

For the Dallas Henault story, in case you missed it, see:

UVic grad hopes to unseat NDP leader in Victoria-Beacon Hill
Times Colonist
Published: Monday, June 09, 2008

Dallas Henault, a 25-year-old graduate of the University of Victoria, has put his name forward as the Liberal candidate to run against NDP Leader Carole James.

Henault made the announcement Saturday at the Marriott Victoria Inner Harbour hotel that he wanted to represent the provincial Liberal party in the riding of Victoria-Beacon Hill.

"This province and the city have been pretty good to me," said Henault by way of explanation.

"I often refer to Victoria as the city that turned me into the young adult that I am."

The native of Kelowna has lived in Victoria for six years, where he earned a degree in economics at the University of Victoria. He is single and is currently employed by the Liberal party.

His interest in politics goes back to age 14, said Henault in a telephone interview. "I think it was the economic conditions of the province at the time."

Now he says Gordon Campbell is the leader he supports "and the way things are today, I believe that sincerely."

Henault said he brings "youth, excitement and a different kind of experience than what's been there before," he said.

The main issues include economic stability, said Henault, adding that the environment is also important.

"I think a lot of people my age are looking to the environment as an issue and making sure for our kids the environment is there to enjoy. The premier has been a world leader on that, on the standards that he set."

The date for the Liberal nomination meeting has not yet been set.
© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008

By the way, if you google Henault's name, you'll find a whole bunch of nasty commentary, much of it focusing on his age (!), from Public Eye Online as well as the Tyee. Maybe Nattrass and Henault have more in common than they might think...?

[gumgum]

At least one of them has an education.

[Caramia]

One of the articles posted about Simon was from two or three years ago. It was that article that called him a drop-out. I hadn't graduated by 17 either. I don't have a clue if he finished his high school after that. A more recent photo of him in the TC shows someone who would be hard to pick out in a crowd.

I'll say one thing as someone who spent 10 years in University both teaching and accumulating degrees. There are definitely other ways to learn about the world.

[gumgum]

I Nattrass has a high school education, then I go back on what I said. But he still would not have a university degree. And yes, a degree means not very much. But it an basic indication to a person ability to commit to something and focus. Not to mention that there are other skills you develop as a student.
I am not judging him as a human being. I am judging his worth as a candidate.
Doctors and lawyers are required a certain level of education. I believe the mayor of this city requires one as well.

[Simon Nattrass]

I'd first like to thank everyone here for debating. I've had a number of people either dismiss me completely, or promise to vote for me simply because they think it's cool. I don't really want either of those reactions. The point of a democratic government is to think and decide for yourself who is the best candidate for the position. In regards to some of the concerns here:

I do not live with my mother. Both of my parents live in northern BC, and I have been living on my own for three years.

I have a grade 10 education, and do not plan to finish my formal schooling. I do not, however, believe that this should be a concern, and would like to point out that a high school education is not a prerequisite for intelligence. I have known many people with less education than myself whom I deeply respect, and whose advice I would take over that of anyone else, regardless of their credentials.

When you enter a conversation with someone, do you first ask them their age and level of formal education, or do you form an opinion based on their ability to debate?

I am not running to get attention. I am running because I think that this city needs a new direction, and I don't see anyone else willing and able to fill that need.

Due to time constraints with campaigning and holding down a job, I will not be able to read and post here very often. I would appreciate it if any questions, comments, or concerns were sent to me personally at simonnattrass@gmail.com. Otherwise, in a few days I will have a website up and running, which will be updated weekly. www.simonformayor.com will hopefully answer any general questions about my position and strategy regarding major issues.

Finally, I would like to ask that people do not make snap judgments regarding their local government. Assumptions and prejudices have gotten this country into the situation it's in now, and I for one would like to learn from the mistakes of others, not repeat them.

[Caramia]

Hey Simon Welcome! Now I am going to grill you on all the issues that I care about and see what you come up with! This should be fun... hee hee!

I'm glad to see you taking an interest in local politics!

[gumgum]

I absolutely agree with you, Simon, that education is not a prerequisite for intelligence. But I wholeheartedly dissagree that education isn't important. At the very least, a high school diploma is a mandatory prerequisite for what stumbling blocks you will be faced with in the future, with whatever path you choose. It's hard enough getting a decent job with an undergraduate degree these days.

When you enter a conversation with someone, do you first ask them their age and level of formal education, or do you form an opinion based on their ability to debate?

What's important to realise is that there are two different facets to this arguement. I absolutely agree that people should not judge the quality of someone's character based on there credentials and age. By running for mayor, however, a person's level of experience, education, the quality of character, and his or her platform should all be taken into account if you are a responsible voter. That's my opinion anyway.

Good luck with your campaign and welcome to the forum.

[Simon Nattrass]

I don't want to argue too much about the education point, as I will agree that education is a great asset in almost any situation. I will make one more general point though, and that is that the mayor's job is to represent the public, not just the educated public. An ability to listen to people and translate the demands of the majority into civic action are assets for this.

Regarding my education, I did not simply stop learning when I left school. To leave was a conscious decision, and since then I have gained an understanding of several different economic, political, and social systems, as well as a basic knowledge of psychology. All I ask is to be considered as a legitimate candidate and have decisions based on my platform, not on assumptions about my level of experience.

[LJ]

I absolutely agree with you, Simon, that education is not a prerequisite for intelligence. But I wholeheartedly dissagree that education isn't important. At the very least, a high school diploma is a mandatory prerequisite for what stumbling blocks you will be faced with in the future, with whatever path you choose. It's hard enough getting a decent job with an undergraduate degree these days.

What's important to realise is that there are two different facets to this arguement. I absolutely agree that people should not judge the quality of someone's character based on there credentials and age. By running for mayor, however, a person's level of experience, education, the quality of character, and his or her platform should all be taken into account if you are a responsible voter. That's my opinion anyway.

Good luck with your campaign and welcome to the forum.

I agree that education is important as well.

[Caramia]

Hey now, picking on the handheld guy is just mean! He's got a disability!

[Phil McAvity]

I don't want to argue too much about the education point, as I will agree that education is a great asset in almost any situation. I will make one more general point though, and that is that the mayor's job is to represent the public, not just the educated public. An ability to listen to people and translate the demands of the majority into civic action are assets for this.

Regarding my education, I did not simply stop learning when I left school. To leave was a conscious decision, and since then I have gained an understanding of several different economic, political, and social systems, as well as a basic knowledge of psychology. All I ask is to be considered as a legitimate candidate and have decisions based on my platform, not on assumptions about my level of experience.

"assumptions" about your level of experience? What assumptions are we making when you admit you don't have any experience?!?!? We aren't assuming anything! As honourable as your intentions may be Simon, we have no voting record to go by, which means we have nothing to base what you say on, which is why so many people prefer politicians to have some experience (even though experienced politicians are some of the most maligned and ridiculed people around, ironically!). That way we can compare what they say with what they do to know if they have integrity. Speaking of integrity, you might want to figure out what you are saying regarding education because unless someone hijacked your account and posted as you, you said that you have no intention of furthering your grade ten education yet education is very important in almost any situation. You might want to sort out that contradiction. I also don't think that "assumptions and prejudices" have gotten this country into the situation it's in now. You are implying that this country is in dire straits but by almost any measure, the opposite is actually true. And assumptions and prejudices about what?

A mayor's job is also to be a leader rather than a follower, something our current mayor seems to know little about. There is a time to listen and a time to speak. One of the biggest frustrations of living in Victoria is that all the civic "leaders" spend so much time listening to this person and that group and this panel and that organization that they rarely take a lucid position on anything. I'd like to see our elected officials actually spend less time listening and more time doing things, like making well-thought out, logical decisons.

Having said all that, Caramia is right, your political rhetoric is light years beyond most people your age but vacuous rhetoric is the last thing i'm looking for in a representative, although it's great to see someone so young and passionate like yourself getting involved. I too got involved in politics at a young age.

If you still have those spikes and shrapnel in your face, you might do well to take them out since there are plenty of people out there (particularly women) who will judge you on little more than your age and appearance. Now you can't do anything about your age, but you can help yourself by removing them, at least during your mayoralty campaign.

I liked Holden's point about Ben Isitt's academic credentials too. Years in the ivory tower can be a gigantic hindrance as well since that often means that the person has little experience in dealing with the real world, as articulate and erudite as they may be. Not that Isitt is any of those things. Speaking of which, has anyone ever proved that Isitt actually has a Ph.D.?

[gumgum]

I agree that education is important as well.

What Caramia said. On a handheld. It was a miracle I was able to type what a did - espescially with my big fingers.

[Koru]

As another younger Victorian I think its great that Simon is taking such an interest in his city and local politics BUT at the same time echoing the sentiments of several other prior posts I would not vote for him to save my life. I'm not concerned that he is a high school dropout, I'm sure he had legitimate reasons for that, what I am concerned about though is he has no track record, he has no real "life" experience at 19. It doesn't matter if you've lived on you're own for x amount of years or not, it doesn't matter if you've dropped out of high school, it really doesn't even matter you garner the supports of prior mayoral or council candidates to "legitimize" you're campaign. I'm not even concerned that his "education" of politics, economics and such is self-taught. I think he needs to put in his time as anyone else. In the employment world you don't get hired as the Manager, CEO, Superintendent, Tower Crane operator or whatever else with no track record or experience to back you up. We should be following the same principles in our electing of the people we want to represent us in our own town. As an example of working you're way around I've spent the last two years learning the basics of crane work, everything from how they are put together in the manufacturing centres to how they are pieced together on site, to proper rigging procedures to proper operating procedures and then under the direction of other highly competent people with extensive track records fine tuned and learned the finer details of my profession. When I moved back to Victoria, my employer didn't just toss me in the seat of a half a million dollar machine, weighing over 100 000 pound sitting over other workers and the public without first ensuring I had a track record of safety and competency. Now I may be the youngest full time Tower Crane Operator in the city but at the same time, I've spent 2 years working towards and proving to employers I am someone that is competent and can be trusted to ensure safe operation, maintenance and management of the crane. Now I'm not saying I'm a perfect operator or the best their is but what I'm getting at is I've done my due diligence to get to the position I'm in, I've proved to my employers that I am qualified and component for the job just as they've done they're due diligence to ensure that I really am what I say I am!

Using that example we shouldn't be electing 19 year olds as our mayor or even council until they've proven to us they have a sufficient track record in finances, management, socio-economics, and so forth, I'm sure you all get the point it which that is going. If Simon had a track record of managing something of significance to show us that he has commitment and has garnered the trust of others, if he had a record in the community for his strong involvement in various aspects of his community.

My advice to Simon is to get more involved in the local community centres, not just in you're neighborhood but in all regions of the City of Victoria and if you already are, become more vocal so the citizens of Victoria see you're commitment and interest in the city and those around you. In the absence of showing concrete commitment to education, show us a commitment to an employer and garner the trust and track record with you're employer because essentially what you are asking the citizens of Victoria is to employ you to run our city.

Thats just my two cents I'm sure I'll have some opponents on that and some supporters but then again that is why we live in a democracy with free speech right?!

One final thing to the candidate as I'm sure you'll read this, while I don't support you're current bid as mayoral candidate and I won't be voting for you this time. I do on the other hand support you're interest in you're community and gumption to do what you are doing, it really takes someone with some guts to do what you are doing at you're age. I'm sure you'll bring many of the important issues to the table and create a vibrant election campaign. One thing as a voter I can tell you, come back in 3 years and show me a track record and a proven stand on the issues and I'd certainly put you into consideration for my support and vote.

Cheers

[Nparker]

Well put guyinthesky.

[Bernard]

Simon Nattrass might someday make a good municipal politician, but it is complete hubris to think that he can do a good job at it without any experience or training.

I am also certain he knows that he has no hope of winning. I would interested to have him explain how he expects to raise all the money needed to run for mayor.

That said, I find him an interesting person that is worth paying attention to - and not just because I am a huge fan of Wisdom Councils and worked on getting the first one going here in Victoria.

[Joseph]

Well put guyinthesky.

The issue I have with this argument, is that if you continue only to elect individuals with the kind of 'track record' or experience that can only be achieved over time (especially considering you cannot legally vote, petition or otherwise sign any legal documents independently until you are 18), you will forever eliminating representation from a younger demographic. The same may be true for other demographics such as immigrants new to our system of governance.

[Nparker]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Mr. Nattrass does not have a place in civic politics simply because he is young, certainly I am not. I think the question is, does he have the experience necessary to take the lead as mayor? While this job may not require the well-honed skills of a surgeon, it still demands someone with not only a fresh perspective on things, but also someone who can work within and through the "system" to make things happen. I, like many others, feel these sorts of skills come with experience, both life and political. I would strongly encourage Mr. Nattrass to forego his likely futile run for the mayor's seat and instead put his name forward for a city council position. I, for one, would quite likely vote for him then. This way he still gets to see his point of view raised at Council while earning the experience necessary to take on the "#1 job" in time.

[Caramia]

Each councillor gets exactly the same number of votes as the Mayor ... one. If anything, councillors might get more votes because Mayors have other political duties that keep them away from meetings more often. If Simon was running for council I would not only be voting for him, but I would be helping with his campaign, even if there are some issues we disagree on.

For Mayor - I will be listening to the action plans and position on each issue of the candidates - and voting that way.

But I am still thrilled that someone Simon's age (and Joseph you too) is serious about civic politics. I really see the issue of younger representation and involvement to be critical to our city, and while I will vote based on other issues, I'll be a cheerleader to any young candidate for any position.

[Pyroteknik]

I'm glad he's adding some new issues to the table, such as cutting red tape and encouraging buskers and entertainers, public markets and food vendors in the downtown area. This adds great vibrancy to any city. Victoria is very much lacking this right now. I would also support closing lower Government Street to vehicle traffic during the evenings or at peak pedestrian traffic.

[Joseph]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Mr. Nattrass does not have a place in civic politics...I would strongly encourage Mr. Nattrass to forego his likely futile run for the mayor's seat and instead put his name forward for a city council position.

If this is indeed the case, then I certainly agree with you that going directly for the mayoral position, as Ben Issitt (sp?) has done for the past two elections, is not the best practice. I am seeking a seat on council because I feel it is the natural next step into formalized, democratic representation of those I support and those that support me.

I hate to keep being the quibbler here, but I do have one last question I will direct at Bernard: Since when has it required 'all the money' to run for any municipal position in Victoria? I may be naively optimistic, but it still seems to me that our mayors past have had relatively modest financial budgets and that community recognition, voice, and the media have contributed more to promotion than any partisan, monetary funds. And if Nattrass has proven anything at this point, it's that he has what it takes to 'get through' to our local media outlets.