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#21 Huxtable

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 06:34 PM

Harm Reduction Victoria sent out a survey to all candidates running for mayor and council in Victoria. See what they have to say at www.harmreductionvictoria.ca

#22 groundlevel

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 06:54 PM

Chris J. refers to "tent cities and other temporary measures".

I remember that Food Banks were to be a temporary measure.

Shelters -- just temporary till we get this housing thing sorted out.

Yes, people in desperate need have to be fed and have to be sheltered. But these bandaid solutions solve nothing -- and boy are they cheap! It's so very very expensive to deal with poverty, mental illness and addictions. So much easier to have the Christians and the poverty activists desperately filling the gaps.

#23 mat

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:44 PM

Chris J. refers to "tent cities and other temporary measures".

I remember that Food Banks were to be a temporary measure.

Shelters -- just temporary till we get this housing thing sorted out.

Yes, people in desperate need have to be fed and have to be sheltered. But these bandaid solutions solve nothing -- and boy are they cheap! It's so very very expensive to deal with poverty, mental illness and addictions. So much easier to have the Christians and the poverty activists desperately filling the gaps.


Well said - as a society we have come to accept food banks and shelters especially as permanent institutions within our communities. Has anyone heard a statement from a politician, at any level of government. state a goal of real solutions to end those needs? Do we as a society accept a percentage of our citizens will always require a homeless shelter?

While the Salvation Army, and many other well meaning groups and individuals, offer these services out of real need (and some receive government funding for their efforts) they are in effect a service industry, with employees, building and infrastructure investment and professional lobbyists constantly pressuring for more public money and charitable contributions...would all shelter operators and food bank agencies go 'good job society' and freely walk away from what are now on-going businesses? (and that is not to detract from their efforts - it is required)

The other side of the spectrum are the policies of most Western EU countries - Belgium, Holland especially, who have essentially outlawed homelessness. It is a legal right under law to be provided adequate shelter, and their standards and definitions of 'shelter' puts Canada to shame.

#24 Caramia

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:32 PM

Harm Reduction Victoria sent out a survey to all candidates running for mayor and council in Victoria. See what they have to say at www.harmreductionvictoria.ca


Thank you Huxtable and welcome to the forum!

I was talking to a homeless man today who told me he had pissed off the dealers who control the two shelters and so he couldn't stay there.

I found that very disturbing.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#25 Joseph

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:59 PM

I was talking to a couple homeless individuals today who were complaining that food banks/programs don't offer any nutritional food this time of the year. Cake for breakfast for the past week, I heard. Certainly could explain some physical/mental health issues.

#26 Audrey

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:39 AM

I was talking to a couple homeless individuals today who were complaining that food banks/programs don't offer any nutritional food this time of the year. Cake for breakfast for the past week, I heard. Certainly could explain some physical/mental health issues.


Depends on where they go, to a degree. In the coffee bar at Our Place Society, they serve a mix of food that's donated and food that's bought & prepared by the staff/volunteers. There is a budget for things like fruit and milk, though it's limited. You can get a "breakfast" of something like a banana, some bread, coffee and maybe a muffin. It's by no means ideal, and it's always going to be easier to grab the cake and cookies (there are usually more of them, and you might have to wait for the next tray of fruit to be prepared) but it's a better breakfast than I have some days.

Lunch is a sandwich, and soup till it runs out. Dinner is a variety of things. Our Place is, however, not open on weekends. (Residents do get more meals provided.)

I'm not saying it isn't bad. It is bad. It's just not quite so bad as processed sugar 3x a day IF they are able to take the healthier choices when they can. I'm one of the first to argue that mental health and diet are closely tied, and that the street population is not helped by a scavanged diet that's probably mostly sugar and carbohydrates.

#27 ted - 3 - dots

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:52 AM

Depends on where they go, to a degree. In the coffee bar at Our Place Society, they serve a mix of food that's donated and food that's bought & prepared by the staff/volunteers. There is a budget for things like fruit and milk, though it's limited. You can get a "breakfast" of something like a banana, some bread, coffee and maybe a muffin. It's by no means ideal,

(snip - clip by ted )


I'm not saying it isn't bad. It is bad. It's just not quite so bad as processed sugar 3x a day IF they are able to take the healthier choices when they can. I'm one of the first to argue that mental health and diet are closely tied, and that the street population is not helped by a scavanged diet that's probably mostly sugar and carbohydrates.



------ Food Not Bombs serves a meal every Sunday @ 3pm. -----------

actually Food Not Bombs needs a kitchen to cook the Sunday meal .
They got the food , they just need some place to prepare it ...!


------- here is a simple note from them ---------


* Victoria's Food Not Bombs is always thankful for volunteers who help prepare, cook, and clean-up on Sundays. Serve your community, and eat good food.

383-5144 extension 1940.

( leave a message ) if you have a kitchen , or want to help ...!

ted...


--- The Sunday meal is served on the corner of Vancouver & Pandora st. --- 3-pm ...! ----


Ps ,

the meals are many vegetarian. (ie: stuff that you usually don't get on a "street-diet" )

;{-

#28 Chris J

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 05:38 PM

This is another homelessness related issue that doesn't get much attention. The soup kitchens work wonders with what they have. I worked for a year in one and it was a quick education on how to improvise meals with whatever you have on hand.
But the problem is bigger than the funding and donations involved, and on top of that, we live in a society that doesn't yet have a firm collective grasp about what proper nutrition is.
Some days think the overabundance of white bread available to poor people is some kind of biological warfare.
And then there is the issue of all the food being thrown in dumpsters as people go hungry and malnourished in this society. Don't get me started. Needless to say, it's one of a few things wrong with shelters. I worked for two years at the Calgary Drop-In, and we were consistently understaffed. We had to be security, counceller, janitor, secretary and first aid provider all roled into one. It's impossible to provide a proper measure of safety for people, and it's why many avoid shelters.

#29 Caramia

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:08 PM

The wasting of food in dumpsters is shameful, especially when grocery stores (to be fair the only one I ever knew who did this was the now extinct Food Country) purposefully spoil it by pouring bleach on it.

The other side of the story is about personal responsibility, when stores that turn a blind eye, start locking their dumpsters because their staff encounters used needles, or has to deal with constant messes. I know not all street people are able to be responsible enough to clean up after themselves, but that's a role that activists living close to dumpsters can take.

Keeping the area around the dumpster clean is a role my household took when we lived in Cook St Village, and I believe it stopped the dumpster from being locked for several years. We also made a compost available to dumpster divers who wished to compost food that they pulled out that wasn't good. It was after we moved out and the community that cared for that dumpster moved on that conflict started around it. Chris J, I am sure you can speak more about that conflict.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#30 Mike K.

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:24 PM

Let's not forget tax issues. Yes, you read right, tax issues.

An acquaintances food business was audited some eight years ago and a question posed to her was whether or not she paid tax on food she gave away to homeless individuals.

To throw away food isn't a problem for the tax man, but to give it to a human being without properly noting it in tax returns, and potentially paying tax for the deed, is in contravention of tax laws. At least that was the case then, and that was made very clear to my friend at the time.

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#31 mat

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:06 PM

Let's not forget tax issues. Yes, you read right, tax issues.

An acquaintances food business was audited some eight years ago and a question posed to her was whether or not she paid tax on food she gave away to homeless individuals.

To throw away food isn't a problem for the tax man, but to give it to a human being without properly noting it in tax returns, and potentially paying tax for the deed, is in contravention of tax laws. At least that was the case then, and that was made very clear to my friend at the time.


Same with Food and Safety (local health bylaws essentially) - after a fairly large gathering some months ago we had platters of un-opened, fresh sandwich plates that had section labels for allergies, veggie etc. (Thrifty's) leftover. We phoned around to food banks, shelters - even the hospice unit at Jubilee. None could/would take them - and we were warned not simply run downtown and hand them out as that would be a violation. Yet all would accept the same if direct from the supplier (how they validate, who knows)

Not sure what to think of that in retrospect - at the time we were somewhat miffed. Lunch was fairly predictable for the next 2 days, and the neighbourhood kids had a feast. None of them, or us, got sick.

#32 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:11 PM

^ I know someone who after a big event (wedding or something) simply went downtown at night and handed out leftover food -- exactly like those platters of sandwiches you describe, mat -- and he said it was shocking how many people appeared out of the woodwork (well, doorways and alleyways), eager to grab a bite.

Had he tried giving it to third parties, I guess he would have run into the same issues. There's something wrong with that picture, isn't there?
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#33 Caramia

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 12:39 AM

Maybe one of the questions we should be asking isn't how to provide for those who seem to be unable to provide for themselves, but rather, how we are stopping them, and their communities from finding a way to meet their own needs.

Scavenging in the urban landscape is stealing, even when it is waste that is being taken. But going out into the forest to build yourself a home is also not allowed, as we saw with Sombrio. You can't build a rude shack on a friend or family member's lawn. We have bylaws against that. You can't rent an abandoned warehouse and let all your friends and their dogs sleep there unless it is properly zoned with sufficient bathrooms, as we saw with Spiral Island.

You can go to shelters and soup kitchens and have people provide for you though.

The phrase "learned helplessness" comes to mind.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#34 Barra

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 10:20 AM

Same with Food and Safety (local health bylaws essentially) - after a fairly large gathering some months ago we had platters of un-opened, fresh sandwich plates that had section labels for allergies, veggie etc. (Thrifty's) leftover. We phoned around to food banks, shelters - even the hospice unit at Jubilee. None could/would take them - and we were warned not simply run downtown and hand them out as that would be a violation. Yet all would accept the same if direct from the supplier (how they validate, who knows)

Not sure what to think of that in retrospect - at the time we were somewhat miffed. Lunch was fairly predictable for the next 2 days, and the neighbourhood kids had a feast. None of them, or us, got sick.


Next time, try bringing such unused leftovers to Our Place. I am volunteering in their coffee bar and we regularly get wrapped sandwiches, Thrifty's sandwich platters, and even leftover sections of slab birthday cakes. We also get a lot of donations that are obviously from supermarket or coffee shop bakeries. Sandwiches are really appreciated first thing in the morning, as are hard boiled eggs. We have a "church lady" who brings in 5 dozen eggs and she is the most popular person in the place!
Pieta VanDyke

#35 ted - 3 - dots

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 10:38 AM

Yesterday at the CRD HAT-committee ( housing Action Team ) ,
we heard about the "mother's-project" .

Tony , from Tony's Bike Trailers has built 4 bike trailers that fold-out into a tent. Easy to assemble , the tents fold neatly into the trailer when not in use ... The trailers (with the tent on board) can be used to haul recyclable bottles & cans.

30 people applied for the trailers , unfortunately , only 4 were ready to go.!
Pacific Coast Capital & Tony (himself) , are the only finders of this project.

The Committee To End Homelessness in Victoria
( a group of citizen's , NOT the mayor's task-force )
are the ones who decided who gets the trailers...!

----- Oh ya ...

The tent-trailers are a free gift ( no monetary value , no re-sale permitted )

The first 4 people know that there are rules, like respect for privet property & the environment.
(ie: don't make a mess when binning )

The CRD HAT committee has known about the project for sometime. They've been asked to find safe parking places for the trailers, so the binner's can do other things , with-out having to guard their belongings all & night...!

--------- ted... I can get more info if anybody wants to see it

:)

#36 Audrey

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 11:27 AM

Next time, try bringing such unused leftovers to Our Place. I am volunteering in their coffee bar and we regularly get wrapped sandwiches, Thrifty's sandwich platters, and even leftover sections of slab birthday cakes. We also get a lot of donations that are obviously from supermarket or coffee shop bakeries. Sandwiches are really appreciated first thing in the morning, as are hard boiled eggs. We have a "church lady" who brings in 5 dozen eggs and she is the most popular person in the place!


Isn't Dave Picard the awesomest guy in the world to work with? I used to bring my guitar in to volunteer there, and he'd teach me songs during the quieter moments.

A lot of people get their breakfast from the coffee bar, so yeah, food with some substance is well loved there. Had any arguments over milk yet? That was always the biggest fight when I was there. There was enough for everyone to have some--but not enough for everyone to drink a litre each.

#37 Chris J

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 11:30 AM

Some friends and I tried to bring this issue to public attention during the Food Country dumpster-diving trial this summer. All the media came down to the courthouse where we had laid out a truckload of food that we'd gleaned from 2 hours of diving, and all we got was a short Shaw daily clip where Rev. Al said it was dangerous to dumpster dive, and besides, they were doing fine at feeding people.
Folks at Our Place are doing a good job. I'm not saying they aren't. Rev. Al's anti-tent city comments and anti-dumpster diving comments are not helpful though to people who are trying to advocate that maybe when we hit hard times our only option should not be just to go through his doors.
Not all food thrown in dumpsters by the way is past date or spoiled.
Here's a brief lesson in retail food sales. Stores buy way more than they ever sell so that they always have what you need when you want it. When was the last time you went to the supermarket and they were out of apples? Exactly, because the surplus is maintained, and why it is thrown out as opposed to donated is the question here.
I was in a town in Arizona where you went in and asked for food and they gave it to you. They manager told me that the people who asked for the surplus food would not have been able to pay for food anyway, and many of those would just get it out of the dumpster, so it saved everyone time and work. Secondly, the people who buy food want the blemish free food. That's why the shelves are stocked with it. And the manager told me that he heard from people who shopped there more often because the appreciated what he did for people by giving away food.
So the arguement that you HAVE to throw it away is a lazy, meanspirited arguement.
Granted some stuff is questionable, and steel stomached scavengers who eat dumpster meat will still go into the dumpster. I and most people I know would gladly sign liability waivers for the store if they would just stop trying to poison us with bleach. Yes, it happens in many places, and in places where the divers create no mess or disruption. I think some people are just really bitter that they have to pay so much for food when we know how to get it for free.

#38 hoi polloi

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 07:30 PM

i have a friend who was threatened with firing for giving the day old sandwiches away. he was told to bleach the bins. nuts. it is good food being wasted-something that irks me to no end.

film crews eat well, very well. they demand it. it is a decadent industry, and while living in vancouver, we would take the leftovers to kitchens in the dtes after shoots-no one refused it based on some health and safety concern. i find victoria to be a most officious place to live, rather bylaw happy. the catering business itself puts on a mobile xmas dinner every year, those trucks are highly efficient food dispensers.

there is no shortage of food, just access to it, apparently. rev al is hoping to be part of the solution, and work with enforcement to keep business happy, but there will always be some who would prefer to sleep rough and do their own scavenging.

rant/over.

i posted the results of harm reduction victoria's survey of candidates in it's own thread, under elections. if anyone is interested, it gives a thumbnail of where candidates stand on the addiction, and consequently homelessness, issues.

#39 mat

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 08:55 PM

Next time, try bringing such unused leftovers to Our Place. I am volunteering in their coffee bar and we regularly get wrapped sandwiches, Thrifty's sandwich platters, and even leftover sections of slab birthday cakes. We also get a lot of donations that are obviously from supermarket or coffee shop bakeries. Sandwiches are really appreciated first thing in the morning, as are hard boiled eggs. We have a "church lady" who brings in 5 dozen eggs and she is the most popular person in the place!


Pieta - this was back in June, but we called Our Place and were told they could not accept catering leftovers, even unopened. Maybe if we had just shown up it would have been different. Thanks for the info - next time I, clients or others have decent food trays we will be happy to drop them off. (love the anecdote on the egg lady)

#40 Nparker

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 06:38 PM

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