58 replies to this topic

[Ms. B. Havin]

It's good to see another candidate step up.

I have one quibble though. Sipos's slogan is "We Want Our City Back," which is a pretty clever slogan insofar as it will no doubt appeal to the law-and-order types, as well (unfortunately) as the NIMBYs who don't even live downtown but who feel that downtown development mortifies tourists and is turning us into Vancouver.

What bugs me is that according to City Hall minutes, Sipos lives at 2745 Beach Dr., which is in the Uplands. (map)

Not Victoria.

He doesn't live in Victoria, but could become the mayor of Victoria.

Just saying.

[VicHockeyFan]

I have no problem with a non-resident mayor, esp. if he is a business-type. I'm not sure Sipos is the dream candidate the business community has been hoping for though. But unless a significantly better one comes along, we don't want to risk splitting the vote.

Sipos will be able to raise considerable cash, and/or use his own.

[yodsaker]

I don't like the idea of non-residents occupying political office.
If they are business people it stands to reason their business interests will be paramount.
At the end of the day they don't have to live with neighbours who may be affected by their decisions.
Better that Mr. Sipos run for mayor of Oak Bay, IMO.

[VicHockeyFan]

I don't like the idea of non-residents occupying political office.
If they are business people it stands to reason their business interests will be paramount.
At the end of the day they don't have to live with neighbours who may be affected by their decisions.
Better that Mr. Sipos run for mayor of Oak Bay, IMO.

What's the difference between where Lowe lives (a little cul-de-sac off the east end of Rockland) or the Sipos home? Crap, if anything there is less conflict of interest if the mayor is not personally affected by land use decisions council makes.

[yodsaker]

What's the difference between where Lowe lives (a little cul-de-sac off the east end of Rockland) or the Sipos home? Crap, if anything there is less conflict of interest if the mayor is not personally affected by land use decisions council makes.

The difference is a simple one.
Mr. Lowe lives in the city where he is mayor.
Mr. Sipos does not live in the city where he wishes to be elected.
He may care less about land use decisions if they DON'T affect him personally and he may care TOO MUCH if his business interests stand to benefit.
As a developer he is surely aware of business concerns in Victoria.
But how much awareness and understanding does he have of neighbourhood concerns, other than sizing up an area for its potential commercial benefit to his or his associates' interests?

[VicHockeyFan]

The difference is a simple one.
Mr. Lowe lives in the city where he is mayor.
Mr. Sipos does not live in the city where he wishes to be elected.
He may care less about land use decisions if they DON'T affect him personally and he may care TOO MUCH if his business interests stand to benefit.
As a developer he is surely aware of business concerns in Victoria.
But how much awareness and understanding does he have of neighbourhood concerns, other than sizing up an area for its potential commercial benefit to his or his associates' interests?

I could understand the concern if he was running for mayor of The Highlands or Metchosin. But really, all of us are pretty aware of most issues in the city and the core. And a big part of Victoria's (City) concerns are regional concerns. I'd rather find the best guy for the job and not limit the qualifications to the 80,000 residents of Victoria. I think I could name 20 guys/gals I'd like to see run for mayor, and I'm not sure where they live municipality-wise, but they mean something to Victoria and are very talented.

I'll even start my list:

George Heller
Ron Butlin
Matt MacNeill
Mel Cooper
Benj O'Connor
Starr McMichael
James McKenzie
Chris Coleman
Rob Reid
Frank Bourree
Ron Lou-Poy

[davek]

I expect all politicians to pursue their self-interests while in office, no matter where they live. The more choice I have in who to vote for, the more likely I am to find a candidate who is not entirely repulsive.

Of course, that's not always the case. I find the US Democrat and Republican candidates repulsive.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I'm conflicted on this.

Allowing people who do not reside here and who cannot vote here to hold elected office is a tacit acknowledgment that the artificial balkanization of our city is a sham -- and that it's something we ignore in every single way except in law.

That is, it's an acknowledgment of the reality that Oak Bay, Esquimalt, Saanich, and Victoria are in fact one city, but it allows the balkanization to continue.

(It would be a different case if a resident of Victoria, say, could up and run for mayor of Richmond -- and stand a fighting chance. In which case I'd say it's indicative of how f*cked our local/ municipal politics are. But it's probably the case that even if that example were a legal possibility, no one would really attempt it because it would be impossible to turn into a reality. So: back to square one, which is that in "Victoria," you have this situation where people who can literally walk from one legal municipality into the other cannot vote in that municipality -- even though they may well have real interests there -- but they can run for the highest office there.)

I really have a problem with that, not because I don't believe that a Saanich resident can make a good Victoria councilor or mayor, but because by allowing non-voters to run our city, we're enabling our broken attitude toward tolerating an un-amalgamated city.

Why should we ever press the issue of amalgamation if someone from the Uplands or the Highlands or wherever can ride in and "save" us (not) with their bid for council or the mayor's seat?

Those folks will sit in council chambers and make decisions that, as residents, they wouldn't even be able to vote on.

IMO, at the very least that sends a wonky message about democracy: "You don't need to vote, just ride in on the appropriate horse and lead us."

[rjag]

I dont care where he lives. Its of no consequence. What you should care about is the best person for the job. No more no less.

If the current condition of our region is a measuring stick based on local representatives living there, then perhaps you should consider their failure to do their job which is to create a safe place to live and work and play and a place we can be proud of.

If Sipos is the person to do it, he can live in Siberia for all I care. Lets give him some time to consider his platform and publicise it.

Perhaps yet again, another reason to amalgamate into the tri-cities

[Ms. B. Havin]

PS: I'd like to know how often it has happened that a Victoria resident ran for council or mayor's seat in one of the other municipalities.

How many times did it happen that someone ran for such a position?

How many times did it happen that they were elected?

If it's the case that we're dealing with a one-way street (residents from other municipalities running for office in Victoria, but not vice versa -- Victorians running for office in other municipalities) -- if that's the case, then what does that tell us about our political balkanization?

[VicHockeyFan]

Those folks will sit in council chambers and make decisions that, as residents, they wouldn't even be able to vote on.

We let folks that live outside of Victoria City to speak at Vic council meetings, and they don't even need to state their municipality of residence, and if the street or block of a long street is obscure enough then most councillors might not know if they are or are not residents of Victoria, but I'm sure they listen to what they say and take into account their views. So non-residents can influence council decisions now.

I'm sure we all know one Esquimalt resident (that granted, may not have much sway on Victoria's decisions just by his insistence on speaking on a great many issues) that sure takes up a lot of Vic council time.

[Ms. B. Havin]

We let folks that live outside of Victoria City to speak at Vic council meetings, and they don't even need to state their municipality of residence, and if the street or block of a long street is obscure enough then most councillors might not know if they are or are not residents of Victoria, but I'm sure they listen to what they say and take into account their views. So non-residents can influence council decisions now.

You're repeating what I said. We effectively acknowledge that the artificial balkanization of our city is a sham already, in every which way. I'm saying that we're a bunch of phonies and sh*ts for acting like the "official" boundaries still matter -- except, I'm adding, that in this political question of who gets to be mayor or councilor, there might be a wedge to bring the question to the forefront.

We can either, as per rjag & davek and others, say, "oh, it don't matter, who cares, may the best man/woman/ sheep/ mammal win" or we say, "wait a second: this is about voting, about formal politics, and maybe we should care and push the point."

If we say, "it doesn't matter," then we're saying we don't care about whether or not we're a unified city or whether we continue as this motley collection of fiefdoms.

[VicHockeyFan]

PS: I'd like to know how often it has happened that a Victoria resident ran for council or mayor's seat in one of the other municipalities.

How many times did it happen that someone ran for such a position?

How many times did it happen that they were elected?

If it's the case that we're dealing with a one-way street (residents from other municipalities running for office in Victoria, but not vice versa -- Victorians running for office in other municipalities) -- if that's the case, then what does that tell us about our political balkanization?

Duncan has only about 5000 residents by is the business centre for Cowichan Valley (population over 80,000). Surely you would think it OK not to have a Duncan-residing mayor

[VicHockeyFan]

You're repeating what I said. We effectively acknowledge that the artificial balkanization of our city is a sham already, in every which way. I'm saying that we're a bunch of phonies and sh*ts for acting like the "official" boundaries still matter -- except, I'm adding, that in this political question of who gets to be mayor or councilor, there might be a wedge to bring the question to the forefront.

We can either, as per rjag & davek and others, say, "oh, it don't matter, who cares, may the best man/woman/ sheep/ mammal win" or we say, "wait a second: this is about voting, about formal politics, and maybe we should care and push the point."

If we say, "it doesn't matter," then we're saying we don't care about whether or not we're a unified city or whether we continue as this motley collection of fiefdoms.

But until amalgamation happens, should we put up barriers to others to run just to prove a point about our strange system of multiple municipalities?

[Ms. B. Havin]

Duncan has only about 5000 residents by is the business centre for Cowichan Valley (population over 80,000). Surely you would think it OK not to have a Duncan-residing mayor

Does Duncan have the regional power politics issues we have? Does Duncan have a problem with amalgamation? Does Duncan have a downtown that takes care of all the social problems of the region in the way that Victoria does? Is Duncan the capital city of BC? Is Duncan in fact a city of ~350K even though the federal and provincial governments only recognize it as a city of ~80K?

Is Duncan Victoria?

[Ms. B. Havin]

But until amalgamation happens, should we put up barriers to others to run just to prove a point about our strange system of multiple municipalities?

I'm saying "make it an issue." You're saying "ignore it, it doesn't matter."

There's a difference.

If you say it doesn't matter and that it only matters that we get the best man (literally, as there are no women running), then we can go on like this for the next 150 years and never reach the point where the conversation gets us to amalgamation.

[VicHockeyFan]

I'm saying "make it an issue." You're saying "ignore it, it doesn't matter."

There's a difference.

If you say it doesn't matter and that it only matters that we get the best man (literally, as there are no women running), then we can go on like this for the next 150 years and never reach the point where the conversation gets us to amalgamation.

I'm saying lets not elect a less-then-suitable candidate just to try to force amalgamation that may or may not take place in the foreseeable. How about we elect a good one that successfully lobbies the government to force amalgamation.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I'm not suggesting we elect a clown to force amalgamation. I'm saying, "elect the best candidate, but make the residency thing an issue that we talk about."

If not now, when?

By making a stink about how we elect people who can't even vote here, even though they can perhaps walk -- or definitely ride their bike -- to City Hall, we can paint a very vivid picture of just how f*cked our balkanized situation is.

Talk about it, make it an issue. We're not going to change the system insofar as we'll still get people running who don't live here and who can get elected. I'm not saying Stan Sipos can't run for mayor, or that the best people for the job shouldn't run.

I'm just asking, can we have a conversation about this, and about how crazy it is?

I don't see the main stream media pursuing this, nor the people already holding office (Charmaine Thornton-Joe, Helen Hughes -- how do you feel about this?, someone mentioned Peter Pollen fondly -- another Oak Bay-er, no?).

It's like the friggin' elephant in the room.

[G-Man]

^ Agree.

Ms B. You make a good case and to be honest people running for office where they can't vote rubs me the wrong way too. It does seem funny that the Times Colonist wouldn't even mention the issue. Perhaps we should all try to run for Oak Bay and make our political point that way.

Anyways the only way that amalgamation is EVER going to happen is if there was a citizen run plebiscite on the issue. That way the province could circumvent the local politicians on some sort of grounds.

[groundlevel]

Ms B Havin wonders what Charlayne Thornton-Joe thinks of people running for public office in Victoria who dont live here?? Councillor Thornton-Joe lives in Saanich. When she ran for Victoria Council three years ago, she lived in Saanich and worked in Oak Bay at the Marina. If she's moved to Victoria, I haven't heard about it.

Incidently, any person who owns property in Victoria can vote in the Victoria municipal election. You can live in Metchosin or the Highlands or Sidney and vote here. I understand the reasoning. I'm not convinced it's a good idea. (not that this applies to Councillor Thornton-Joe -- I'm just pointing out a quirk of the voting process.)