47 replies to this topic

[Rorschach]

Be carefull in the ID thing even if you're a passenger. If you are not wearing a seatbelt, the officer has reason to detain you separate from having a reason to stop the driver. If you don't have ID you can be taken into custody, fingerprinted and photographed and so on for the purposes of establishing your identity. This is one of those surprising tools in the toolbox people don't know about. There are any number of reasons to detain vehicle passengers, especially if the driver gets arrested.

It's better not to be a smart ass. Just say, "I wasn't planning on driving officer, so I didn't think I needed it." Listen to the question they ask -- if you can keep your head during these stressful encounters. At the roadblocks, they ask "Do you have your driver's license with you?" If you say "No" - the officer has probable cause to detain you. He has evidence that a public offense is being committed in his presence.

However, if you lie about having your license when you don't, if they come up with some other reason to detain you - odor of alcohol, blown pupils, open container, busted taillight -- what have you -- then lying to an officer is technically obstructing justice, a more serious charge than driving without your license in possession.

When they are lawfully detaining you (see above) they can demand ID and do something about it if your identity can't be established.

I know this is hard to do, but don't try to one up the cops -- it has the potential of disastrous results. What if you run into one of those tiny minority of cops who don't meet integrity standards?

Don't be overly cooperative, or overly aggressive, be calm, polite and right down the middle. And try and listen. Every time the officer hears a circumlocution when they ask you a direct question it's just one more detention factor.

[yodsaker]

It's better not to be a smart ass.

Absolutely right. Don't give them a reason to ruin your day.

[mat]

[QUOTE=At the roadblocks, they ask "Do you have your driver's license with you?" If you say "No" - the officer has probable cause to detain you. He has evidence that a public offense is being committed in his presence.

Don't be overly cooperative, or overly aggressive, be calm, polite and right down the middle. And try and listen. Every time the officer hears a circumlocution when they ask you a direct question it's just one more detention factor.[/QUOTE]

Rorscach - actually, not carrying ID is not reasonable cause for search, the Supreme Court of Canada upheld that back in the '90's. But you are correct it is still used 'on the street' by police - later in court that premise is often turned into 'I had a reasonable suspicion the suspect was carrying drugs, which I later found in a hidden compartment in the right wheel well' - you know how it goes.

Sounds like you had experience, maybe some training, in protest movements!!

[Rorschach]

If the officer has the right to demand ID -- such as when you are driving -- and you can't provide it, you can be arrested and the search for ID is incident to arrest. An officer can't just walk up to you and demand ID and search you if you can't provide it. As I said, you can arrest someone and then later let them go if you are later satisfied no crime has been committed or you can release someone on a promise to appear or any number of options. There are lots of tools in the toolbox.

Again, it all comes down to whether the officer can articulate facts that would persuade a reasonable person that a public offence has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed. Regarding cars, you don't need a search warrant if you have probable cause to search. If you arrest someone in a car you can search their whole car. Passengers in a car are just another container.

You guys think you can outsmart the police and beat the system -- but you really don't know how many tools there are that COULD be used. I'm not saying every officer does or even knows them all. But they are there and you can be ****ed and never see it coming.

The police here - in spite of some bad examples that pop up -- are incredibly professional and polite. There is no reason -- really -- to be an idiot in your dealings with them. I'm providing a little insight for the innocent people who from time to time will come in contact with the police. If the police are detaining you they think you are guilty of something.

There's something called "Othello's Error" that occurs in such interactions. Desdemona was faithful, she was afraid that Othello believed she was not and it showed. Othello interpreted her fear as evidence of guilt. He was wrong. Innocent people can act guilty in the eyes of police. If you are aware of this sort of thing, such an understanding will help you stay calm and keep you out of trouble.

[Mike K.]

How about providing ID to a cop at a roadblock and said cop insisting that the ID you presented is not yours?

Around Christmas of last year I was stopped at a roadblock and had an exchange with a cop who insisted my ID did not match up with my face. If it wasn't for my mother sitting next to me that night I'm sure I would have been asked to pull over to the side of the road for alternative treatment.

So what was different about me that night which wasn't reflected on the ID? Nothing. Nothing about my facial features had changed from the time the photo was taken.

[Rorschach]

How about providing ID to a cop at a roadblock and said cop insisting that the ID you presented is not yours?

Hard to say what happened without being there and seeing everything. But there is the myth of the infallable government. Humans make errors. That's the simplest explanation. Perhaps the officer was just burned by someone who passed of his brother's ID as his own and was still upset over his own mistake and took it out on you. Or perhaps he was just fishing because guilty people believe the myth of infallable government and admit stuff without much pressure. How did that officer know!?

The new IDs in BC will have biometric features. If you want one now, there is a program to apply for it. It will have a smart chip in it and be pretty much impossible to forge.

[Pyroteknik]

Sounds like a good idea, but who is going to be the first to do this when faced with several police officers, brandishing assorted weapons?

Yes, great point. This weighs in heavily with ruining my fun during Canada Day celebrations. Who wants to spend the night at the cop shop.. but maybe it's worth the confrontation? What not a better day to stand up for your freedom! Especially considering I'm one of the many thousands who are not a problem and are offended by this type of search and seizure.

By Comparison, Ottawa reports only 32 arrests for Canada Day, and let me tell you from experience and numbers of attendance, they certainly party harder than we do.

[mat]

Victoria police are obviously not apologetic over their Canada Day actions, nor even considering any policy change - BC Day warning to anyone heading downtown on the long weekend.

http://www.cfax1070....php?newsId=5931

Remember your rights!!