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#41 Rorschach

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:35 AM

Looks like the neighborhoods are taking my advice...

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070630.BCBRIEFS30-3/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia/:2341f]Neighborhood seeks court injunction[/url:2341f]

My question now is how many drug addicts lives have been saved by these measures? Were we having a rash of overdoses before? And since we aren't providing the drugs, how will a safe site prevent overdoses? I think the logic of all thise stuff strains credulity.

#42 rjag

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 04:08 PM

What would happen if you were caught smoking a cigarette while cooking up your heroin?

I bet Richard Stanwyck would come don on you like a ton of bricks....I mean how dare you expose those poor addicts to 2nd hand smoke!!!!

Seriously tho' the only way this will have a hope of any success is to provide adequate detox centres and follow-up care. Giving them a clean needle is only assisting the dealers to maintaining a steady customer base.

My 2 cents for all its worth

#43 Holden West

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 04:44 PM

To take your question seriously, it's dead easy to nab him for smoking because the CRD simply issues him a ticket (good luck getting him to pay it, though :) ). But right now, trying to get him arrested for possession of drugs requires getting a provincial prosecutor that thinks that charges will stick and is willing to put aside the avalanche of other criminals to deal with this one guy. Unless the addict is carrying a sufficient quantity to warrant trafficking charges, you'll dreaming if you think the cops would waste valuable resources on him.

See? Different jurisdictions, different resources.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#44 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:12 PM

To take your question seriously, it's dead easy to nab him for smoking because the CRD simply issues him a ticket (good luck getting him to pay it, though :) ). But right now, trying to get him arrested for possession of drugs requires getting a provincial prosecutor that thinks that charges will stick and is willing to put aside the avalanche of other criminals to deal with this one guy. Unless the addict is carrying a sufficient quantity to warrant trafficking charges, you'll dreaming if you think the cops would waste valuable resources on him.

See? Different jurisdictions, different resources.


Is that true? Is nobody charged with possession of anything anymore? I know they don't lay marijuan charges, but I thought they still layed crack/coke/herions/meth possession charges.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#45 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:21 PM

To take your question seriously, it's dead easy to nab him for smoking because the CRD simply issues him a ticket (good luck getting him to pay it, though :) ). But right now, trying to get him arrested for possession of drugs requires getting a provincial prosecutor that thinks that charges will stick and is willing to put aside the avalanche of other criminals to deal with this one guy. Unless the addict is carrying a sufficient quantity to warrant trafficking charges, you'll dreaming if you think the cops would waste valuable resources on him.

See? Different jurisdictions, different resources.


Is that true? Is nobody charged with possession of anything anymore? I know they don't lay marijuana charges, but I thought they still layed crack/coke/herions/meth possession charges.


From the RCMP website in 2005: Offences

Canada In 2005, Statistics Canada reported a total of 92,255 incidents involving drugs. Of this total, the majority included cannabis, followed by cocaine, and lastly, all other drugs combined. Furthermore, the majority of incidents were possession, followed by trafficking, and finally importation/production.

More than half of the incidents resulted in charges. Of the total number of drug-related charges filed in 2005, the majority were related to cannabis, followed by cocaine. While there were many more possession incidents compared to trafficking incidents, the percentage of trafficking incidents leading to charges was almost double that of possession.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#46 Holden West

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:52 PM

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of those possession charges were bundled with other offenses like possession of stolen property, breach of probation etc.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#47 rjag

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:04 PM

To take your question seriously, it's dead easy to nab him for smoking because the CRD simply issues him a ticket (good luck getting him to pay it, though :) ). But right now, trying to get him arrested for possession of drugs requires getting a provincial prosecutor that thinks that charges will stick and is willing to put aside the avalanche of other criminals to deal with this one guy. Unless the addict is carrying a sufficient quantity to warrant trafficking charges, you'll dreaming if you think the cops would waste valuable resources on him.

See? Different jurisdictions, different resources.



Well thank god these drug addicts dont smoke!!!!

#48 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:26 PM

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of those possession charges were bundled with other offenses like possession of stolen property, breach of probation etc.


Ya, that makes sense. I guess if you are "clean" otherwise, there is no reason cops would have reason find drugs on ya anyway. They probably find it when they have already arrested you for something else, and then they find it in their standard pat-down prior to your police car / paddy-wagon ride.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#49 Holden West

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:33 PM

Yep. And unless the cop has a reason to search for something else, the only way he could arrest a guy for doing drugs is if he actually catches him in the act of using.

And if you're a cop, would you really want to spend hours of your shift dealing with this one pathetic dude knowing full well the Prosecutor can't be bothered with such bottom-feeders? Hell, they can't even be bothered with most low level dealers.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#50 m0nkyman

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 07:48 AM

If the prosecutors would just do their fricking jobs, the police could stop arresting the same twelve people over and over again....

#51 Rorschach

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 06:35 AM

They really should establish a drug court in Victoria. The process is collaberative between prosecutor, defender and judge. It's a different kind of criminal problem and such an approach would make a difference since so much of our crime revolves around drugs. Perhaps Vancouver's problem is too large for such a court to make a difference, but the model could be applied here:

[url=http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/news/nr/2001/doc_27968.html:fba2f]Vancover Drug Court[/url:fba2f]

#52 Holden West

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 09:41 PM

Early on in the thread I did explain my solution in detail. Don't you remember telling me that people can't be forced to get medical treatment and I said that they could if they were in jail or prison? Yes, I am venting a little anger here, but I didn't think I had to repeat myself with every post. I was assuming you and others read the earlier posts.


Yes, but imprisoning emotionally damaged people in need of medical treatment has a good chance of backfiring in a horrific way. There are other methods that experts believe would be less expensive and more successful. All I've been able to gather is that you advocate the use of a seemingly promising drug treatment (Naltrexone). As I've said before, this is great news, but it can only a piece of the puzzle; even its advocates agree it is not a magic bullet. Users must get at the root problems that cause them to self-medicate with illicit drugs (and commit crimes to pay for them).

Dumping them back on the street after they successfully detox is a waste of time and money.

Needle exchanges are problematic, both practically and ethically. Yet studies seem to indicate they reduce the spread of blood-borne diseases without increasing the desirability of drug use. In other words, I don't know of any credible evidence that shows people taking up drugs in part because needles are freely given.

It's too bad about diabetics. Yes, they should get 'free' supplies. We should all have 'free' medical care. In fact, I don't think there should be PST on feminine hygiene supplies.

I realize nothing I say and no solution I propose will meet with your approval. I accept that. Don't you recall the earlier posts in this thread where I posted quotes from Leo Tolstoy? Yes, this is a long thread and perhaps my points are too intellectual to easliy grasp. I simply do not want to hammer everyone over the head with them and I'd prefer that my points were made in the mind of the reader on their own. So much for subtlety I guess.


Give me credit for at least being one of the last ones willing to engage in debate. I can (and often do) change my opinion on many subjects. All it takes is reasonably convincing evidence. Basically, I'm a supporter of a local version of Vancouver's Four Pillars program.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#53 Rorschach

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 06:51 AM

Yes, but imprisoning emotionally damaged people in need of medical treatment has a good chance of backfiring in a horrific way.


But that's not what I said or proposed. I realize it is a fine point and difficult to grasp. I don't advocate rounding up people to be imprisoned. I never said that. That's a straw man. The problem is a select few who commit real crimes over and over. Instead of the system just being a revolving door, while they are incarcerated FOR A REAL CRIME THEY ACTUALLY COMMITTED AND WERE CONVICTED OF IN COURT, medical treatment should be mandatory. Every malady most of these derelicts suffer from has a legitimate medical treatment - however, the nature of the illness prevents them from seeking treatment on their own and refusing medical treatment if offered which is why it should be imposed.

I can't believe that you favor doing nothing under such circumstances. And for the sake of argument, what is this worst case scenario where legitimate medical treatment for alcoholism or drug addiction or mental illness backfires? What is it you fear could potentially happen if a real doctor treated them just as if they'd walked off the street asking for medical help?

Rights are important and everyone's rights have to be taken into account and balanced out. We have freedom of religion, but does that mean it's legal for a church to practice child sacrafice even if they sincerely believe it's an essential part of their church? No, we don't. Rights between individuals and groups are all subject to balancing. Under the law right now -- changing nothing -- a prisoner has no right to refuse medical treatment. Using the law in this way is the only hope. What kind of backfire could be worse than the slow death they face by doing nothing? Not to mention how they affect the quality of life of everyone else in society and drain resources from more meaningful endeavours.

#54 gumgum

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 07:50 AM

Needle exchange helps community
Miki Hansen, Times Colonist
Published: Monday, July 16, 2007


Re: "Needle exchange offers false hope," July 12.

Needle exchanges are one part of a continuum of services needed to help people living with addictions to improve their lives. This continuum also includes primary health services, drug and alcohol counselling and rehabilitation facilities.

Everyone needs to start somewhere. Victoria's needle exchange offers a way to reduce the spread of hepatitis C and HIV, and to save lives as a result; it also offers a place for people to ask for help and to take their first steps toward recovery.
AVI continues to seek the necessary financial commitments from government in order to provide a comprehensive, multidiscipline range of services at the Victoria Needle Exchange. This would provide individuals with more treatment and support options.

I remain convinced that the public will lend their undivided support for these services if they are given the opportunity to see the positive changes they can make in our community.

Miki Hansen,

executive director,

AIDS Vancouver Island.


© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007



#55 gumgum

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 07:51 AM

Time to take back the city
Paul Gerrard, Times Colonist
Published: Monday, July 16, 2007


The Burnside Gorge Community Association recently held a public meeting on the possible relocation of the needle exchange to the Rock Bay area. I am proud that this community, although not necessarily accepting of another controversial social facility in the area, recognized this was a problem that needed to be addressed.

What came through loud and clear was that major funding had to be found before anything could be accomplished, and that all stakeholders have a responsibility to find a suitable solution.

Equally important is the need for positive leadership and direction from the City of Victoria, or we will continue on this downward slide. We cannot allow a situation like the Vancouver Eastside to become permanent here, and there needs to be immediate action.

We need champions to step up and help to broker a solution and take back this city for the majority, while helping those less fortunate or addicted, who are also part of our community, to get the help and treatment they need.

Paul Gerrard,

president, Burnside Gorge

Community Association,

Victoria.


© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007



#56 Rorschach

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:16 AM

Another possible treatment:

[url=http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_health_news_details.asp?channel_id=2022&relation_id=1883&news_channel_id=2022&news_id=21894:cf0bb]Single Pill May Stop Smoking and Drinking[/url:cf0bb]

#57 LJ

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:11 PM

Or perhaps something like this;


http://www.schickshadel.com/
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#58 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:48 PM

Another possible treatment:

[url=http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_health_news_details.asp?channel_id=2022&relation_id=1883&news_channel_id=2022&news_id=21894:be9f7]Single Pill May Stop Smoking and Drinking[/url:be9f7]


A pill to stop gambling, that's crazy...
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#59 Rorschach

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 05:33 AM

Another possible treatment:

[url=http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_health_news_details.asp?channel_id=2022&relation_id=1883&news_channel_id=2022&news_id=21894:a9a02]Single Pill May Stop Smoking and Drinking[/url:a9a02]


A pill to stop gambling, that's crazy...


I wouldn't bet on its success.

#60 Rorschach

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 05:39 AM

Or perhaps something like this;


http://www.schickshadel.com/


I think I'd reccommend [url=http://postcardsfromthezone.blogspot.com/2006/11/307-hellgramite-method.html:0f5d6]The Hellgramite Method[/url:0f5d6]

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