2302 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Infrastructure has to be logical and users must be able to anticipate signalling changes, flow, and inputs from all directions. The area east of the bridge is very difficult to understand if you’re not using it regularly, and even then you are dealing with four inputs, two controlled special turning lights, three separate controlled cycling inputs, lights at the bridge, a yield to merge onto the main roadway heading west, pedestrians, and an island in the middle.

This would never happen in another city.

[Victoria Watcher]

Infrastructure has to be logical and users must be able to anticipate signalling changes, flow, and inputs from all directions. The area east of the bridge is very difficult to understand if you’re not using it regularly, and even then you are dealing with four inputs, two controlled special turning lights, three separate controlled cycling inputs, lights at the bridge, a yield to merge onto the main roadway heading west, pedestrians, and an island in the middle.

 

And this is brand new, from the very best road engineers taxpayer money can buy.  That started with a blank canvass when the bridge was being designed.

 

There isn't even a good reason why Store must continue and be through to Wharf.  Or why there is that additional mini street parallel at Market Square.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 July 2022 - 07:58 AM.

[Mike K.]

Is there an entrance to a city's downtown more complicated, anywhere in the western/developed world, than in Victoria?

[Victoria Watcher]

Is there an entrance to a city's downtown more complicated, anywhere in the western/developed world, than in Victoria?

 

[Mike K.]

That's logical, no? You choose what street you want to exit onto, and follow the signs.

 

There's no cross traffic, there are no lights, there are no bi-directional bike lanes, there are no special lights depending on which lanes you're in, etc, and no pedestrians darting across the Park Row exit ramp.

[Spy Black]

And this is brand new, from the very best road engineers taxpayer money can buy.  That started with a blank canvass when the bridge was being designed.

I think you'd find, with some investigation, that many (if not all) of the decisions the COV's very experienced Engineers would normally have been tasked to make, were actually politically dictated to them ... and those Engineers were simply told to fulfil the agenda laden political mandate as it was issued to them, and to "please" do so without contravening any Provincial traffic legislation.

 

Which is why, although the intersection under discussion doesn't inherently contravene any Provincial traffic legislation, it is still a prime example of a disastrous, expensive, and dangerous implementation of what is, at it's core, the pet project and agenda driven result of the very worst Civic Government the City of Victoria has ever, and likely will ever have.

Edited by Spy Black, 09 July 2022 - 10:13 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

True. It’s like the bridge being three lanes. Because - it always was that way.

[Mike K.]

Don’t absolve the Fortin government for putting those wheels in motion. The Helps government inherited that boondoggle, but then mixed in its own seasonings and spices to create a convergence of some 20 cycling and vehicle lanes.

[Mike K.]

And we were supposed to make some money off excess land, but that never happened. The bridge also doesn’t have protective fendering, and the company that built it is now into cooking oils after dropping the desk business to build a unique bridge.

[Nparker]

I think you'd find, with some investigation, that many (if not all) of the decisions the COV's very experienced Engineers would normally have been tasked to make, were actually politically dictated to them ... and those Engineers were simply told to fulfil the agenda laden political mandate as it was issued to them...

The Nightmare on Vancouver Street is a prime example of this. I would imagine the engineers who came up with this mess, must have felt great shame at what they were told to deliver.

[Spy Black]

The Nightmare on Vancouver Street is a prime example of this. I would imagine the engineers who came up with this mess, must have felt great shame at what they were told to deliver.

I know it's not really funny in the sense of a good laugh, but if you happen to not have any firsthand knowledge of Vancouver Street in 2022, it can literally develop into a Keystone Cops routine of driving around in a maze for 20 minutes of constant redirection in the direction that you don't want to go ... before finally making it to your destination only half a block from where you first entered the maze!

[Mike K.]

It’s like a CoV survey, isn’t it? They just took a flow diagram from their engagement template and turned it into a street.

[Nparker]

...They just took a flow diagram from their engagement template and turned it into a street.

If it only made that much sense.

[Daveyboy]

Infrastructure has to be logical and users must be able to anticipate signalling changes, flow, and inputs from all directions. The area east of the bridge is very difficult to understand if you’re not using it regularly, and even then you are dealing with four inputs, two controlled special turning lights, three separate controlled cycling inputs, lights at the bridge, a yield to merge onto the main roadway heading west, pedestrians, and an island in the middle.

This would never happen in another city.

Friends were visiting Victoria from up island a few months ago and made the mistake of driving that part of downtown.  I don't know exactly what happened but they vowed NEVER to drive there again.  We recently walked in that area and they were hoping I could give a play by play on how to proceed, where and which lane to turn, when it was safe to turn and why someone on a bike screamed at them.  Genuinely freaked out by the experience.

[aastra]

Sounds like your friends don't appreciate livability. Give them time. They just need to develop a taste for that atmosphere of apprehension and uneasiness.

[Mike K.]

Important cities require everyone to be angry.

[Ismo07]

Is there an entrance to a city's downtown more complicated, anywhere in the western/developed world, than in Victoria?

 

18 Most Confusing Intersections In the World - Odometer

 

Check out Swindon....

Edited by Ismo07, 11 July 2022 - 07:47 AM.

[Mike K.]

Things can look confusing when viewed from the air, but make more sense down on the ground.

Our road network at the bridge is perfectly fine from the air, it’s the signalling and complexity of who goes when and how the modes interact that is the issue.

[Ismo07]

Things can look confusing when viewed from the air, but make more sense down on the ground.

Our road network at the bridge is perfectly fine from the air, it’s the signalling and complexity of who goes when and how the modes interact that is the issue.

 

Would absolutely put that super roundabout in Swiden against what we have at the bridge head as more confusing to anyone new to it.  People still have troubles with the roundabouts near the airport..  Drivers seem to be confused easily when something is new or they are not paying attention.  I'd be curious if the truck driver there was confused or really just didn't pay as much attention as he should.  New shouldn't mean confusing, should mean a little more focus.  Mike what is your confusion there specifically?  Too much light signals?  Signage doesn't make sense?  I recall discussion or a traffic circle there initially..  You could bet there would be many people confused with that and some would vow never to drive that way.    Now there are some easy changes to make there to reduce the amount of light sequences but it would hamper pedestrian movements.

[Mike K.]

Britain is a nation of roundabouts.

Only us and the yanks complain about them.